1
00:00:00,140 --> 00:00:15,430
[Music]

2
00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:22,340
thank you

3
00:00:30,270 --> 00:00:27,690
[Music]

4
00:00:37,190 --> 00:00:30,280
[Applause]

5
00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:44,870
foreign

6
00:01:32,469 --> 00:01:26,929
[Music]

7
00:01:36,590 --> 00:01:35,210
from the high peaks Wilderness I bid you

8
00:01:38,390 --> 00:01:36,600
all good evening good morning good

9
00:01:40,310 --> 00:01:38,400
afternoon wherever you may be Across the

10
00:01:41,929 --> 00:01:40,320
Nation around the world my name is Leah

11
00:01:43,010 --> 00:01:41,939
Prime and this is the invisible night

12
00:01:44,569 --> 00:01:43,020
school

13
00:01:46,069 --> 00:01:44,579
for those of you just joining us the

14
00:01:48,350 --> 00:01:46,079
invisible night school is a small

15
00:01:49,969 --> 00:01:48,360
Consortium of lay researchers and

16
00:01:52,249 --> 00:01:49,979
Scholars pursuing the study and

17
00:01:54,889 --> 00:01:52,259
exploration of ufology high strangeness

18
00:01:57,109 --> 00:01:54,899
and the phenomenon ins is not a monolith

19
00:01:59,330 --> 00:01:57,119
we represent varied ideas backgrounds

20
00:02:00,889 --> 00:01:59,340
disciplines and experiences and seek to

21
00:02:03,230 --> 00:02:00,899
engage in good faith dialogue with other

22
00:02:05,870 --> 00:02:03,240
curious minds tonight we are super

23
00:02:07,370 --> 00:02:05,880
excited to welcome Mike Huntington I'm

24
00:02:09,309 --> 00:02:07,380
also personally very excited to be back

25
00:02:12,290 --> 00:02:09,319
after a brief Hiatus of a few weeks

26
00:02:15,350 --> 00:02:12,300
super delighted to see some of our

27
00:02:17,270 --> 00:02:15,360
friends and fans in the audience as

28
00:02:19,309 --> 00:02:17,280
usual hi to Simon

29
00:02:21,550 --> 00:02:19,319
Jim what's going on

30
00:02:24,290 --> 00:02:21,560
V

31
00:02:26,150 --> 00:02:24,300
Rock SD yes congratulations thank you

32
00:02:28,550 --> 00:02:26,160
yes I was awake getting engaged so I now

33
00:02:30,229 --> 00:02:28,560
have like an engagement ring on I have

34
00:02:31,610 --> 00:02:30,239
incredibly found someone who wants to

35
00:02:33,290 --> 00:02:31,620
spend all of eternity with me this

36
00:02:35,089 --> 00:02:33,300
boggles my mind as well as it boggles

37
00:02:35,869 --> 00:02:35,099
everyone else's

38
00:02:39,170 --> 00:02:35,879
um

39
00:02:41,809 --> 00:02:39,180
thank you and hi to Spooky super excited

40
00:02:44,030 --> 00:02:41,819
for your upcoming travel Vapor missiles

41
00:02:47,509 --> 00:02:44,040
what's going on

42
00:02:49,790 --> 00:02:47,519
Jan and of course the Earth

43
00:02:52,430 --> 00:02:49,800
um some of my it's like the who's who of

44
00:02:53,869 --> 00:02:52,440
all my favorites in the audience tonight

45
00:02:55,130 --> 00:02:53,879
um so before I welcome them on to the

46
00:02:57,170 --> 00:02:55,140
stream I'd just love to give you guys

47
00:02:59,150 --> 00:02:57,180
some background on Michael Huntington

48
00:03:01,970 --> 00:02:59,160
he's a paranormal travel writer blogger

49
00:03:03,890 --> 00:03:01,980
and UFO researcher from Cape Girardeau

50
00:03:06,229 --> 00:03:03,900
Missouri who's investigated the unusual

51
00:03:08,089 --> 00:03:06,239
since the 1970s he's traveled to

52
00:03:10,250 --> 00:03:08,099
hundreds of places in the U.S with his

53
00:03:12,290 --> 00:03:10,260
family documenting strange locations in

54
00:03:14,930 --> 00:03:12,300
Lost lore building a paranormal location

55
00:03:17,270 --> 00:03:14,940
GPS research database with thousands of

56
00:03:19,070 --> 00:03:17,280
locations his writings and photography

57
00:03:21,050 --> 00:03:19,080
work can be found across the social

58
00:03:23,509 --> 00:03:21,060
media landscape on Facebook Instagram

59
00:03:24,710 --> 00:03:23,519
and Twitter and on the strange travels

60
00:03:25,369 --> 00:03:24,720
blog

61
00:03:30,050 --> 00:03:25,379
um

62
00:03:32,030 --> 00:03:30,060
eventually to be released strange travel

63
00:03:33,350 --> 00:03:32,040
book series so we are super excited to

64
00:03:35,330 --> 00:03:33,360
bring Michael onto the show this evening

65
00:03:37,869 --> 00:03:35,340
so without any further delay I'm going

66
00:03:39,949 --> 00:03:37,879
to bring on my co-hosts uh Lewis

67
00:03:42,410 --> 00:03:39,959
wonderful to see you

68
00:03:44,089 --> 00:03:42,420
Campbell great job running the show in

69
00:03:46,430 --> 00:03:44,099
my absence I went back and listened to

70
00:03:48,710 --> 00:03:46,440
read the intro I was very impressed

71
00:03:50,390 --> 00:03:48,720
um thank you also I I did want to also

72
00:03:51,710 --> 00:03:50,400
say I was delighted that you even kept

73
00:03:53,390 --> 00:03:51,720
from the Great Northern Wilderness

74
00:03:55,910 --> 00:03:53,400
because that applies as much to you as

75
00:03:59,210 --> 00:03:55,920
it does to me if not more so since

76
00:04:01,910 --> 00:03:59,220
possibly more so yes laughs

77
00:04:03,830 --> 00:04:01,920
of course our resident dubious Layman

78
00:04:06,830 --> 00:04:03,840
Nick how are you friend

79
00:04:08,809 --> 00:04:06,840
how are you yes wonderful to see all of

80
00:04:10,970 --> 00:04:08,819
you and um of course the men of the hour

81
00:04:14,350 --> 00:04:10,980
my Counting 10.

82
00:04:17,390 --> 00:04:14,360
hello hello so nice to have you here

83
00:04:19,009 --> 00:04:17,400
thank you I think uh Leah I think you

84
00:04:20,990 --> 00:04:19,019
left something out of his intro I think

85
00:04:23,390 --> 00:04:21,000
he forgot to mention that he was the uh

86
00:04:24,110 --> 00:04:23,400
the youngest associate of apro at one

87
00:04:25,730 --> 00:04:24,120
time

88
00:04:29,390 --> 00:04:25,740
isn't that true Michael

89
00:04:32,570 --> 00:04:29,400
uh yeah I uh got involved in this

90
00:04:35,150 --> 00:04:32,580
subject when I was a kid uh you know I

91
00:04:36,230 --> 00:04:35,160
uh growing up in the 70s we sort of had

92
00:04:39,530 --> 00:04:36,240
all this

93
00:04:43,249 --> 00:04:39,540
uh UFO stuff all around us on television

94
00:04:46,790 --> 00:04:43,259
and movies uh tabloid it was sort of

95
00:04:48,490 --> 00:04:46,800
everywhere and uh I was captivated by

96
00:04:51,350 --> 00:04:48,500
some of the uh the cases of the time

97
00:04:53,990 --> 00:04:51,360
especially the Travis Walton case

98
00:04:57,530 --> 00:04:54,000
and the the Stanford abduction those

99
00:05:01,370 --> 00:04:57,540
things sort of piqued my interest

100
00:05:03,469 --> 00:05:01,380
um my family was uh

101
00:05:05,450 --> 00:05:03,479
was okay with that you know they

102
00:05:07,909 --> 00:05:05,460
encouraged that they got me all of the

103
00:05:10,610 --> 00:05:07,919
UFO magazines and all of the books and

104
00:05:11,629 --> 00:05:10,620
all the Tabloid stuff you know uh pretty

105
00:05:13,070 --> 00:05:11,639
much ever

106
00:05:16,129 --> 00:05:13,080
everything

107
00:05:20,270 --> 00:05:16,139
um related to the subject

108
00:05:22,249 --> 00:05:20,280
um and I I dove into it I I got

109
00:05:24,469 --> 00:05:22,259
interested in in it you know when I was

110
00:05:27,529 --> 00:05:24,479
eight years old I had pictures of Travis

111
00:05:29,510 --> 00:05:27,539
Walton getting Zapped by a UFO on my

112
00:05:34,129 --> 00:05:29,520
wall and uh

113
00:05:37,730 --> 00:05:34,139
and I I wanted to uh pursue you know

114
00:05:40,610 --> 00:05:37,740
being a ufologist and that was something

115
00:05:44,810 --> 00:05:40,620
that I always was interested in and I

116
00:05:49,010 --> 00:05:44,820
started uh writing to organizations

117
00:05:51,529 --> 00:05:49,020
uh in the uh the late 70s and uh

118
00:05:53,210 --> 00:05:51,539
you know a lot of them were trying to do

119
00:05:56,749 --> 00:05:53,220
the scientific approach you know so when

120
00:05:58,850 --> 00:05:56,759
I wrote a post and and not a cap and and

121
00:06:00,469 --> 00:05:58,860
apro and all of them it was like okay

122
00:06:03,830 --> 00:06:00,479
kid yeah whatever you can get a

123
00:06:07,790 --> 00:06:03,840
subscription or whatnot but uh

124
00:06:10,490 --> 00:06:07,800
uh afro I sort of uh went after and I

125
00:06:13,249 --> 00:06:10,500
think uh you know pestered them into uh

126
00:06:16,010 --> 00:06:13,259
making me an associate and what is that

127
00:06:18,050 --> 00:06:16,020
acronym just for uh the real phenomena

128
00:06:20,629 --> 00:06:18,060
research organization it was one of the

129
00:06:22,309 --> 00:06:20,639
uh the leading civilian investigative

130
00:06:25,070 --> 00:06:22,319
organizations

131
00:06:29,450 --> 00:06:25,080
uh throughout like the uh the 60s and

132
00:06:33,650 --> 00:06:29,460
the 70s it's uh Jim and Carol Lorenzen

133
00:06:36,050 --> 00:06:33,660
out of Tucson Arizona uh ran that and uh

134
00:06:40,129 --> 00:06:36,060
they were promoting you know a

135
00:06:42,290 --> 00:06:40,139
scientific approach uh to UFOs uh back

136
00:06:45,050 --> 00:06:42,300
then at you know in the in the 60s and

137
00:06:48,650 --> 00:06:45,060
the 70s as were you know groups like uh

138
00:06:51,170 --> 00:06:48,660
like from the UFO studies and and others

139
00:06:52,909 --> 00:06:51,180
and they uh

140
00:06:56,150 --> 00:06:52,919
you know so they they were looking for

141
00:07:00,350 --> 00:06:56,160
scientists and all that but uh uh I

142
00:07:02,629 --> 00:07:00,360
think Jim died in like 84 or 85 and then

143
00:07:06,350 --> 00:07:02,639
Carol soon after and then you know

144
00:07:08,330 --> 00:07:06,360
heineck was gone by 86 so sort of before

145
00:07:11,510 --> 00:07:08,340
that period you know it was uh sort of

146
00:07:14,390 --> 00:07:11,520
the end of apro uh you know when I got

147
00:07:18,050 --> 00:07:14,400
got involved so uh they were gracious

148
00:07:20,270 --> 00:07:18,060
enough to uh uh you know let me uh have

149
00:07:21,830 --> 00:07:20,280
a card and do all that I got I got it

150
00:07:24,409 --> 00:07:21,840
somewhere and I got all my bullets and

151
00:07:27,110 --> 00:07:24,419
still and uh

152
00:07:30,950 --> 00:07:27,120
um later on went on to to join like

153
00:07:33,529 --> 00:07:30,960
mufon and and and all that and I I

154
00:07:36,529 --> 00:07:33,539
studied philosophy of science at

155
00:07:39,890 --> 00:07:36,539
Southeast Missouri here uh focusing on

156
00:07:41,749 --> 00:07:39,900
uh pseudoscientific demarcation uh I

157
00:07:44,809 --> 00:07:41,759
didn't graduate I was one of those uh

158
00:07:48,110 --> 00:07:44,819
guys that uh took philosophy

159
00:07:49,010 --> 00:07:48,120
took every philosophy course and and you

160
00:07:51,230 --> 00:07:49,020
know like

161
00:07:54,110 --> 00:07:51,240
a lot of philosophers you either become

162
00:07:55,850 --> 00:07:54,120
a a professor or you're you know you're

163
00:07:59,629 --> 00:07:55,860
a fry cook or you're working a lot of

164
00:08:02,809 --> 00:07:59,639
different jobs I I ended up uh uh I

165
00:08:07,070 --> 00:08:02,819
worked in politics I uh uh I had a video

166
00:08:09,170 --> 00:08:07,080
store I did some filmmaking I got

167
00:08:11,450 --> 00:08:09,180
married had kids did a lot of different

168
00:08:15,170 --> 00:08:11,460
stuff that sort of diverted me from uh

169
00:08:17,330 --> 00:08:15,180
from different paths but uh uh yeah

170
00:08:19,610 --> 00:08:17,340
that's that that's my background the UFO

171
00:08:21,230 --> 00:08:19,620
thing's always been there you said that

172
00:08:24,529 --> 00:08:21,240
you uh went to school at Southeast

173
00:08:26,629 --> 00:08:24,539
Missouri is that right yes and is that

174
00:08:28,610 --> 00:08:26,639
not uh the place where uh Harley

175
00:08:31,129 --> 00:08:28,620
Rutledge doctor Harley Rutledge the

176
00:08:33,290 --> 00:08:31,139
solid state physicist uh taught and uh

177
00:08:36,409 --> 00:08:33,300
if I'm ready wasn't he one of the first

178
00:08:39,409 --> 00:08:36,419
uh private sector public sector uh

179
00:08:43,670 --> 00:08:39,419
scientist to lead a extensive UFO field

180
00:08:45,829 --> 00:08:43,680
study uh nearby yeah uh I I am in Cape

181
00:08:48,650 --> 00:08:45,839
Girardeau Cape Girardeau does have uh

182
00:08:52,730 --> 00:08:48,660
you know a considerable amount of UFO

183
00:08:55,130 --> 00:08:52,740
lore as as well as contributions uh I I

184
00:08:59,329 --> 00:08:55,140
live in Kate but I'm originally from St

185
00:09:01,670 --> 00:08:59,339
Louis uh which likewise also has a

186
00:09:03,949 --> 00:09:01,680
history of uh you know contributions to

187
00:09:06,230 --> 00:09:03,959
the field uh you know that that's where

188
00:09:08,690 --> 00:09:06,240
you know the St Louis Flying Saucer

189
00:09:09,949 --> 00:09:08,700
groups uh you know ended up forming

190
00:09:13,070 --> 00:09:09,959
mufon

191
00:09:16,730 --> 00:09:13,080
uh out of the St Louis Flying Saucer

192
00:09:19,910 --> 00:09:16,740
clubs uh uh Ted Phillips uh one of the

193
00:09:22,910 --> 00:09:19,920
the greatest researchers ever is uh was

194
00:09:26,810 --> 00:09:22,920
from Central Missouri uh and yes

195
00:09:30,290 --> 00:09:26,820
Southeast Missouri uh uh my alma mater

196
00:09:32,990 --> 00:09:30,300
I had Dr Harley Rutledge who was uh the

197
00:09:36,590 --> 00:09:33,000
chair of the astronomy department at

198
00:09:37,430 --> 00:09:36,600
Southeast uh in the 60s and the 70s

199
00:09:43,070 --> 00:09:37,440
um

200
00:09:44,750 --> 00:09:43,080
legitimate scientist uh trained uh you

201
00:09:47,509 --> 00:09:44,760
know astronomers that went on to great

202
00:09:48,829 --> 00:09:47,519
careers including some uh at least one

203
00:09:51,590 --> 00:09:48,839
astronaut

204
00:09:53,449 --> 00:09:51,600
and uh

205
00:09:57,350 --> 00:09:53,459
he was

206
00:10:01,790 --> 00:09:57,360
sort of intrigued uh by the subject uh

207
00:10:03,889 --> 00:10:01,800
beginning I think in 1973 when there was

208
00:10:06,889 --> 00:10:03,899
a wave of sightings throughout Missouri

209
00:10:09,350 --> 00:10:06,899
especially around the Piedmont Missouri

210
00:10:10,790 --> 00:10:09,360
area which is not too far from here it's

211
00:10:14,690 --> 00:10:10,800
you know like an hour and a half or two

212
00:10:17,269 --> 00:10:14,700
hours all throughout that area it was

213
00:10:20,930 --> 00:10:17,279
called the Brushy Creek wave or the

214
00:10:23,810 --> 00:10:20,940
Brushy Creek scare literally hundreds

215
00:10:26,570 --> 00:10:23,820
and hundreds of people

216
00:10:30,769 --> 00:10:26,580
claim to have seen UFOs you know entire

217
00:10:35,329 --> 00:10:30,779
teams uh you know police

218
00:10:38,090 --> 00:10:35,339
uh Civic people teachers uh including

219
00:10:40,550 --> 00:10:38,100
you know an entire drive-in movie

220
00:10:43,090 --> 00:10:40,560
theater filled with people uh we're

221
00:10:46,430 --> 00:10:43,100
seeing things uh during that time period

222
00:10:48,470 --> 00:10:46,440
and Dr Rutledge went over to investigate

223
00:10:51,949 --> 00:10:48,480
and uh

224
00:10:53,810 --> 00:10:51,959
it was worth investigating uh Ted

225
00:10:56,030 --> 00:10:53,820
Phillips and Dr heineck also came down

226
00:10:58,850 --> 00:10:56,040
and investigated but uh

227
00:11:01,490 --> 00:10:58,860
Dr Rutledge saw that you know there was

228
00:11:03,470 --> 00:11:01,500
some sort of sustained phenomena that

229
00:11:05,509 --> 00:11:03,480
people were experiencing

230
00:11:08,389 --> 00:11:05,519
that you know they were seeing something

231
00:11:09,710 --> 00:11:08,399
that wasn't just all mass hysteria that

232
00:11:11,509 --> 00:11:09,720
there was

233
00:11:13,550 --> 00:11:11,519
you know if there's something tangible

234
00:11:15,829 --> 00:11:13,560
then it can be documented and it can be

235
00:11:18,110 --> 00:11:15,839
studied and he was in the position to be

236
00:11:20,569 --> 00:11:18,120
able to do that and he launched a

237
00:11:21,350 --> 00:11:20,579
project identification which was the

238
00:11:25,069 --> 00:11:21,360
first

239
00:11:29,030 --> 00:11:25,079
a university level field study

240
00:11:31,190 --> 00:11:29,040
of anomalies and it went on for like six

241
00:11:35,210 --> 00:11:31,200
years seven years and it used all

242
00:11:37,730 --> 00:11:35,220
different kinds of of academics and you

243
00:11:39,889 --> 00:11:37,740
know graduate students and such and they

244
00:11:43,430 --> 00:11:39,899
they documented the lights of Piedmont

245
00:11:45,050 --> 00:11:43,440
and uh the the wave that was going on in

246
00:11:49,009 --> 00:11:45,060
Ellsbury Missouri

247
00:11:51,590 --> 00:11:49,019
uh in in the late 70s and uh which also

248
00:11:53,870 --> 00:11:51,600
was had cattle mutilation mutilations

249
00:11:57,530 --> 00:11:53,880
there uh

250
00:12:01,130 --> 00:11:57,540
so yeah he he was

251
00:12:02,810 --> 00:12:01,140
I think uh he was an inspiration to me

252
00:12:06,650 --> 00:12:02,820
it was one of the reasons I came down

253
00:12:09,710 --> 00:12:06,660
here uh uh he he had already retired by

254
00:12:11,090 --> 00:12:09,720
the time I came down here but uh you

255
00:12:13,670 --> 00:12:11,100
know just uh

256
00:12:16,250 --> 00:12:13,680
just knowing you know that I'd be able

257
00:12:20,150 --> 00:12:16,260
to go here and be involved in some of

258
00:12:22,670 --> 00:12:20,160
the the history Cape also has uh you

259
00:12:25,310 --> 00:12:22,680
know a UFO crash story too and some

260
00:12:27,230 --> 00:12:25,320
other interesting folklore so I'm glad

261
00:12:28,970 --> 00:12:27,240
to be down here

262
00:12:30,230 --> 00:12:28,980
are you touched on something earlier and

263
00:12:31,850 --> 00:12:30,240
I want to I want to bring it back up

264
00:12:33,650 --> 00:12:31,860
again before we get too far away from it

265
00:12:35,870 --> 00:12:33,660
you mentioned growing up in the 70s and

266
00:12:38,930 --> 00:12:35,880
being kind of surrounded by UFOs in the

267
00:12:40,069 --> 00:12:38,940
culture I noticed like personally I've

268
00:12:42,290 --> 00:12:40,079
noticed you

269
00:12:44,389 --> 00:12:42,300
um posting a lot of kind of

270
00:12:47,329 --> 00:12:44,399
UFO culture and ephemera for throughout

271
00:12:50,329 --> 00:12:47,339
the decades how important do you think

272
00:12:52,670 --> 00:12:50,339
that culture and that saturation is to

273
00:12:55,250 --> 00:12:52,680
kind of the the overall Narrative of

274
00:12:56,449 --> 00:12:55,260
UFOs as we understand them now because I

275
00:12:58,730 --> 00:12:56,459
don't I don't think a lot of people now

276
00:13:02,210 --> 00:12:58,740
realize how popular and actually

277
00:13:04,009 --> 00:13:02,220
mainstream it was in the past

278
00:13:05,870 --> 00:13:04,019
yeah

279
00:13:08,110 --> 00:13:05,880
well you know this is something that's

280
00:13:11,210 --> 00:13:08,120
that's always sort of happened

281
00:13:12,590 --> 00:13:11,220
within the at least the UFO culture you

282
00:13:16,190 --> 00:13:12,600
know which is part of the broader

283
00:13:17,870 --> 00:13:16,200
history uh that within the culture there

284
00:13:19,550 --> 00:13:17,880
are all these different subcultures and

285
00:13:23,090 --> 00:13:19,560
there are all these different periods of

286
00:13:25,730 --> 00:13:23,100
time all these different influencers uh

287
00:13:28,190 --> 00:13:25,740
you know so um

288
00:13:32,150 --> 00:13:28,200
the wheel is pretty much reinvented

289
00:13:32,930 --> 00:13:32,160
every 10 years or so I would think and

290
00:13:35,329 --> 00:13:32,940
um

291
00:13:38,930 --> 00:13:35,339
it's also a subject where people come in

292
00:13:40,910 --> 00:13:38,940
and go out uh very rarely do people sort

293
00:13:43,190 --> 00:13:40,920
of dive into it and they stay in it for

294
00:13:46,250 --> 00:13:43,200
a long period of time I've been involved

295
00:13:49,550 --> 00:13:46,260
in this for like 46 years there's a few

296
00:13:51,230 --> 00:13:49,560
people like that but I think a lot of

297
00:13:53,750 --> 00:13:51,240
people

298
00:13:55,910 --> 00:13:53,760
um you know maybe 10 years maybe 20 or

299
00:13:58,790 --> 00:13:55,920
30 you know you got some of those those

300
00:14:01,069 --> 00:13:58,800
older Folks up there and I think you

301
00:14:05,750 --> 00:14:01,079
have a lot of younger people you know

302
00:14:07,970 --> 00:14:05,760
since 2017 uh due to all the you know

303
00:14:11,090 --> 00:14:07,980
the the mass media and the hype and

304
00:14:12,769 --> 00:14:11,100
everything uh and not knowing the stuff

305
00:14:15,050 --> 00:14:12,779
that had come before in the history and

306
00:14:18,230 --> 00:14:15,060
not knowing that a lot of this sort of

307
00:14:19,790 --> 00:14:18,240
you know these these movements and these

308
00:14:21,310 --> 00:14:19,800
and and such they're they're they're

309
00:14:23,870 --> 00:14:21,320
very

310
00:14:26,150 --> 00:14:23,880
periodic and they they sort of come and

311
00:14:28,790 --> 00:14:26,160
go and we you know we we have to learn

312
00:14:31,730 --> 00:14:28,800
from the history but uh

313
00:14:34,250 --> 00:14:31,740
I I grew up in the 70s and I think that

314
00:14:37,910 --> 00:14:34,260
was sort of a golden age for the subject

315
00:14:39,829 --> 00:14:37,920
I mean it was you know people talk about

316
00:14:43,129 --> 00:14:39,839
you know disclosure

317
00:14:45,530 --> 00:14:43,139
having occurred because of you know

318
00:14:48,290 --> 00:14:45,540
movies and TV and all that and it's like

319
00:14:52,310 --> 00:14:48,300
you weren't around you weren't around

320
00:14:55,250 --> 00:14:52,320
back then you know in like 1978 it was

321
00:14:58,610 --> 00:14:55,260
everywhere yeah Close Encounters in

322
00:15:01,069 --> 00:14:58,620
search of uh tabloid National enquirers

323
00:15:03,710 --> 00:15:01,079
you have project UFO you had all the

324
00:15:06,949 --> 00:15:03,720
science fiction stuff yeah magazines and

325
00:15:08,990 --> 00:15:06,959
everything it was it was everywhere uh

326
00:15:10,910 --> 00:15:09,000
within the culture and and I think that

327
00:15:13,370 --> 00:15:10,920
was sort of a golden age

328
00:15:16,310 --> 00:15:13,380
and and I think it became sort of a

329
00:15:18,829 --> 00:15:16,320
missed opportunity uh you know into the

330
00:15:21,829 --> 00:15:18,839
80s and the 90s you know youth

331
00:15:24,889 --> 00:15:21,839
attainment uh became more of a thing

332
00:15:29,629 --> 00:15:24,899
and and and the narratives the stories

333
00:15:31,970 --> 00:15:29,639
became uh exploitable and uh and we got

334
00:15:36,470 --> 00:15:31,980
these cultural narratives you know Area

335
00:15:38,509 --> 00:15:36,480
51 and and uh Whitley strieber communion

336
00:15:41,629 --> 00:15:38,519
all that sort of stuff these things came

337
00:15:44,629 --> 00:15:41,639
in and sort of pushed the uh just the

338
00:15:46,490 --> 00:15:44,639
basic scientific aerial anomaly to the

339
00:15:49,250 --> 00:15:46,500
side and I think

340
00:15:51,949 --> 00:15:49,260
it's sort of been brought back in

341
00:15:54,590 --> 00:15:51,959
uh in the in the form of uaps for

342
00:15:57,889 --> 00:15:54,600
political purposes right you know that

343
00:16:01,069 --> 00:15:57,899
that at least that modicum of of being

344
00:16:03,410 --> 00:16:01,079
scientific but uh uh you know you can't

345
00:16:04,970 --> 00:16:03,420
disavow all the other strange stuff that

346
00:16:06,590 --> 00:16:04,980
goes with it but

347
00:16:09,530 --> 00:16:06,600
I noticed the language you used there

348
00:16:10,910 --> 00:16:09,540
aerial anomalies um I we talk a lot

349
00:16:12,290 --> 00:16:10,920
about how language is kind of important

350
00:16:14,930 --> 00:16:12,300
in this topic just to be on the same

351
00:16:16,430 --> 00:16:14,940
page as everyone but you since since

352
00:16:20,150 --> 00:16:16,440
I've met you you've been kind of

353
00:16:22,490 --> 00:16:20,160
advocating for a reform of ufology can

354
00:16:25,310 --> 00:16:22,500
you kind of um explain to us all what

355
00:16:29,449 --> 00:16:25,320
you mean by that and um even how how you

356
00:16:33,350 --> 00:16:31,490
sticking point for some people

357
00:16:35,269 --> 00:16:33,360
right well uh

358
00:16:36,769 --> 00:16:35,279
there's some people that don't like the

359
00:16:38,870 --> 00:16:36,779
term ufology now

360
00:16:42,710 --> 00:16:38,880
you know there's some people out there

361
00:16:44,870 --> 00:16:42,720
for various reasons that want ufology to

362
00:16:45,889 --> 00:16:44,880
die and they want to kill it and they've

363
00:16:48,650 --> 00:16:45,899
said so

364
00:16:50,269 --> 00:16:48,660
uh which is sort of perplexing you know

365
00:16:52,189 --> 00:16:50,279
it's sort of like

366
00:16:54,590 --> 00:16:52,199
you know you want to Rebrand something

367
00:16:58,129 --> 00:16:54,600
so you have to get rid of the previous

368
00:17:02,449 --> 00:16:58,139
iteration uh in order to

369
00:17:07,189 --> 00:17:02,459
keep your your control there but uh

370
00:17:10,370 --> 00:17:07,199
ufology is the study of UFOs and it will

371
00:17:12,409 --> 00:17:10,380
always you know be that even if you say

372
00:17:14,150 --> 00:17:12,419
UAP your aerial anomalies or whatever

373
00:17:17,210 --> 00:17:14,160
people are going to say you know what's

374
00:17:18,590 --> 00:17:17,220
a UAP you're going to say it to UFO

375
00:17:25,010 --> 00:17:18,600
uh

376
00:17:26,870 --> 00:17:25,020
there's already enough history there's

377
00:17:28,970 --> 00:17:26,880
already enough literature there's

378
00:17:31,070 --> 00:17:28,980
already enough of a cultural influence

379
00:17:33,350 --> 00:17:31,080
there's already been movements and

380
00:17:36,110 --> 00:17:33,360
personalities and political influences

381
00:17:39,529 --> 00:17:36,120
of the subject you know upon the culture

382
00:17:43,669 --> 00:17:39,539
I I mean it's undeniable that the

383
00:17:46,010 --> 00:17:43,679
subject is a legitimate subject worthy

384
00:17:48,350 --> 00:17:46,020
of study a lot of people sort of get

385
00:17:50,870 --> 00:17:48,360
that confused and they think that

386
00:17:53,810 --> 00:17:50,880
ufology is a Cause

387
00:17:57,710 --> 00:17:53,820
and you know to them it's the disclosure

388
00:18:01,450 --> 00:17:57,720
claw Clause you know which uh they they

389
00:18:04,150 --> 00:18:01,460
see confirmation they seek uh

390
00:18:06,010 --> 00:18:04,160
official them to recognize

391
00:18:10,669 --> 00:18:06,020
their view

392
00:18:12,890 --> 00:18:10,679
of what they think

393
00:18:15,950 --> 00:18:12,900
is behind

394
00:18:20,450 --> 00:18:15,960
which has become sort of a collection of

395
00:18:22,789 --> 00:18:20,460
everything UFO yeah okay which uh just

396
00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:22,799
drives me nuts and it's sort of become

397
00:18:28,610 --> 00:18:25,440
this thing called the phenomenon almost

398
00:18:30,770 --> 00:18:28,620
like a deification like an entity where

399
00:18:32,510 --> 00:18:30,780
we had all these various Mysteries and

400
00:18:35,690 --> 00:18:32,520
we've just collected them together into

401
00:18:39,230 --> 00:18:35,700
one big giant basket uh and I blame

402
00:18:41,830 --> 00:18:39,240
valet and uh Keel you know in a lot of

403
00:18:44,029 --> 00:18:41,840
ways for this because you know they're

404
00:18:47,930 --> 00:18:44,039
everybody's trying to create some sort

405
00:18:50,570 --> 00:18:47,940
of unified uh uh field you know right

406
00:18:52,370 --> 00:18:50,580
for everything paranormal and it may be

407
00:18:54,890 --> 00:18:52,380
there or may not be there but but I

408
00:18:58,430 --> 00:18:54,900
think the best way is to look at uh

409
00:19:01,730 --> 00:18:58,440
things cases on an individual basis and

410
00:19:04,070 --> 00:19:01,740
to uh judge everything in in common

411
00:19:06,590 --> 00:19:04,080
sense terms in a practical terms and

412
00:19:08,570 --> 00:19:06,600
judge likelihoods and not you know blow

413
00:19:11,210 --> 00:19:08,580
smoke up each other's ass about things

414
00:19:13,070 --> 00:19:11,220
you know if there's a legitimate

415
00:19:15,110 --> 00:19:13,080
interpretation that makes more sense

416
00:19:17,870 --> 00:19:15,120
than this one let's go with this

417
00:19:20,570 --> 00:19:17,880
everybody is you know so

418
00:19:21,950 --> 00:19:20,580
bound up in their their viewpoints that

419
00:19:24,770 --> 00:19:21,960
they they just wanna

420
00:19:27,370 --> 00:19:24,780
dismiss and and and put aside evidence

421
00:19:30,770 --> 00:19:27,380
it it's all competing interpretations

422
00:19:34,370 --> 00:19:30,780
ultimately and um you know this this

423
00:19:36,470 --> 00:19:34,380
this subject is it's not a Cause

424
00:19:39,529 --> 00:19:36,480
it's not a mystery

425
00:19:42,650 --> 00:19:39,539
it it's the mystery it's a collection of

426
00:19:46,070 --> 00:19:42,660
mysteries it's it's a lot of things it's

427
00:19:49,430 --> 00:19:46,080
a history and and a subculture and I

428
00:19:53,270 --> 00:19:49,440
think it's legitimate as

429
00:19:56,090 --> 00:19:53,280
as a multi-field disciplinary uh field

430
00:19:58,130 --> 00:19:56,100
of study just as legitimate as say you

431
00:20:00,830 --> 00:19:58,140
know women's studies or or Native

432
00:20:04,610 --> 00:20:00,840
Studies I I think there's enough of a of

433
00:20:07,549 --> 00:20:04,620
a history there uh to legitimize that

434
00:20:10,850 --> 00:20:07,559
and to legitimize the scientific ecology

435
00:20:14,270 --> 00:20:10,860
into legitimize the history and

436
00:20:16,789 --> 00:20:14,280
legitimize the subject in a sociological

437
00:20:19,669 --> 00:20:16,799
way in a psychological way and you know

438
00:20:23,930 --> 00:20:19,679
through all these different lenses and

439
00:20:27,169 --> 00:20:23,940
uh it is also a question of

440
00:20:28,190 --> 00:20:27,179
shifting paradigms it's at the heart of

441
00:20:30,950 --> 00:20:28,200
it

442
00:20:33,190 --> 00:20:30,960
and and this is you know what I stress

443
00:20:36,590 --> 00:20:33,200
more than anything at the heart of it

444
00:20:39,169 --> 00:20:36,600
it's a philosophical issue

445
00:20:42,350 --> 00:20:39,179
not just the UFO stuff

446
00:20:45,070 --> 00:20:42,360
but what constitutes science what

447
00:20:47,510 --> 00:20:45,080
constitutes evidence what demarcates

448
00:20:49,130 --> 00:20:47,520
legitimate methodology from

449
00:20:53,029 --> 00:20:49,140
pseudoscience

450
00:20:55,010 --> 00:20:53,039
okay what is evidence sufficiency

451
00:20:57,049 --> 00:20:55,020
you know what evidence is it going to

452
00:20:58,070 --> 00:20:57,059
take if you're going to have a paradigm

453
00:21:00,350 --> 00:20:58,080
shift

454
00:21:02,150 --> 00:21:00,360
what does that mean does it mean that

455
00:21:04,190 --> 00:21:02,160
you convince everybody on the planet to

456
00:21:07,310 --> 00:21:04,200
believe a certain thing or do you need

457
00:21:08,930 --> 00:21:07,320
to have some sort of method-based

458
00:21:12,529 --> 00:21:08,940
evidentiary

459
00:21:14,029 --> 00:21:12,539
uh basis that you can present to the

460
00:21:15,169 --> 00:21:14,039
establishment because that's who you're

461
00:21:20,150 --> 00:21:15,179
convincing

462
00:21:22,490 --> 00:21:20,160
watching History Channel That's not how

463
00:21:25,730 --> 00:21:22,500
you change a paradigm that's how you get

464
00:21:27,590 --> 00:21:25,740
a belief system or a religion but if

465
00:21:29,810 --> 00:21:27,600
you're trying to con change the

466
00:21:31,730 --> 00:21:29,820
consensus you have to change the

467
00:21:34,070 --> 00:21:31,740
establishment and I'm all in favor of

468
00:21:36,529 --> 00:21:34,080
that and I'm in favor of using the media

469
00:21:39,110 --> 00:21:36,539
and I'm in favor of using science even

470
00:21:41,270 --> 00:21:39,120
politics but the problem is you know

471
00:21:43,970 --> 00:21:41,280
like with the history of UFOs as it's

472
00:21:46,430 --> 00:21:43,980
always been it gets manipulated it gets

473
00:21:50,270 --> 00:21:46,440
manipulated by politics by intelligence

474
00:21:52,310 --> 00:21:50,280
people by entertainers lawyers UFO

475
00:21:54,470 --> 00:21:52,320
celebrities and everybody wants to have

476
00:21:57,950 --> 00:21:54,480
these narratives so they can be an

477
00:22:00,169 --> 00:21:57,960
Insider you know when what we should be

478
00:22:02,810 --> 00:22:00,179
doing is we should be honest with

479
00:22:04,970 --> 00:22:02,820
everything and open with everything and

480
00:22:06,289 --> 00:22:04,980
transparent with everything and

481
00:22:09,649 --> 00:22:06,299
youthology

482
00:22:12,890 --> 00:22:09,659
needs to reform itself it needs to take

483
00:22:14,630 --> 00:22:12,900
itself seriously it needs to reform its

484
00:22:17,930 --> 00:22:14,640
conferences and not make them

485
00:22:20,270 --> 00:22:17,940
infomercials for UFO celebrities and it

486
00:22:21,830 --> 00:22:20,280
needs to have real conferences and not

487
00:22:24,169 --> 00:22:21,840
secret stuff where everybody's

488
00:22:26,990 --> 00:22:24,179
Whispering stuff and you know we're

489
00:22:28,610 --> 00:22:27,000
waiting for the the noon drop so that

490
00:22:32,029 --> 00:22:28,620
you know somebody can get their clicks

491
00:22:33,169 --> 00:22:32,039
no we need to build a real community and

492
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:33,179
the reason you don't have a real

493
00:22:37,909 --> 00:22:35,760
Community is because you have people

494
00:22:41,210 --> 00:22:37,919
that have been brought in

495
00:22:42,710 --> 00:22:41,220
as political Pawns in a lot of ways and

496
00:22:44,810 --> 00:22:42,720
they haven't done the research they

497
00:22:49,310 --> 00:22:44,820
haven't done the homework for a lot of

498
00:22:51,529 --> 00:22:49,320
people UFOs began in 2017 or 2004.

499
00:22:53,330 --> 00:22:51,539
you know there's a whole history there

500
00:22:55,070 --> 00:22:53,340
that needs to be learned we need to

501
00:22:57,110 --> 00:22:55,080
teach it we need to educate it we need

502
00:23:00,110 --> 00:22:57,120
to go for legitimacy we need to cut out

503
00:23:02,330 --> 00:23:00,120
the intelligence games stuff

504
00:23:04,570 --> 00:23:02,340
we need to start having conferences on

505
00:23:08,510 --> 00:23:04,580
the future of the subject

506
00:23:10,549 --> 00:23:08,520
not as an infomercial for a new TV show

507
00:23:12,830 --> 00:23:10,559
or so we can hobnob and take pictures

508
00:23:14,810 --> 00:23:12,840
with people that we want to autograph

509
00:23:17,270 --> 00:23:14,820
our books we need to wait get away from

510
00:23:19,130 --> 00:23:17,280
that UFO celebrity culture there

511
00:23:21,470 --> 00:23:19,140
shouldn't be a stage here and then

512
00:23:23,390 --> 00:23:21,480
everybody else down here watching there

513
00:23:25,549 --> 00:23:23,400
should be workshops there should be

514
00:23:28,190 --> 00:23:25,559
people talking about these issues there

515
00:23:30,770 --> 00:23:28,200
should be competitions between uh field

516
00:23:32,630 --> 00:23:30,780
projects we should get these these

517
00:23:34,510 --> 00:23:32,640
places laid out you know that's why I do

518
00:23:36,950 --> 00:23:34,520
a lot of mapping we need to find these

519
00:23:38,930 --> 00:23:36,960
anomalous locations so that we can do

520
00:23:41,029 --> 00:23:38,940
some serious sustained long-term

521
00:23:43,430 --> 00:23:41,039
scientific investigation

522
00:23:47,390 --> 00:23:43,440
real stuff not

523
00:23:49,549 --> 00:23:47,400
TV show skin walker stuff you know

524
00:23:51,470 --> 00:23:49,559
um that's what I'm about I'm passionate

525
00:23:53,570 --> 00:23:51,480
I'm a researcher it's been doing this

526
00:23:55,730 --> 00:23:53,580
for a long time I've seen a lot of the

527
00:23:58,310 --> 00:23:55,740
[\h__\h] come and go

528
00:24:01,310 --> 00:23:58,320
I you know the noobs come out and they

529
00:24:03,529 --> 00:24:01,320
don't know the subject you know Luella

530
00:24:07,130 --> 00:24:03,539
zondo was up there working for Galileo

531
00:24:09,110 --> 00:24:07,140
project helping pinpoint places and he

532
00:24:11,750 --> 00:24:09,120
didn't even know what hesterlin was

533
00:24:13,789 --> 00:24:11,760
I mean come on think about it what does

534
00:24:16,010 --> 00:24:13,799
that mean

535
00:24:17,630 --> 00:24:16,020
one of one of the things I've brought up

536
00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:17,640
a number of times on this show basically

537
00:24:23,630 --> 00:24:20,640
is the necessity of us almost Allah

538
00:24:26,270 --> 00:24:23,640
Thomas Kuhn to refactor or review how we

539
00:24:29,270 --> 00:24:26,280
actually gather and understand evidence

540
00:24:30,770 --> 00:24:29,280
um because it seems to me and again my

541
00:24:33,830 --> 00:24:30,780
Approach here is larger kind of psycho

542
00:24:36,789 --> 00:24:33,840
spiritual uh in Consciousness based

543
00:24:39,230 --> 00:24:36,799
um but it seems to me that our existing

544
00:24:41,029 --> 00:24:39,240
models and Frameworks for interpreting

545
00:24:42,770 --> 00:24:41,039
the world around us are useful but

546
00:24:45,710 --> 00:24:42,780
limited and it feels to me like

547
00:24:48,350 --> 00:24:45,720
anomalous phenomena very much may test

548
00:24:51,110 --> 00:24:48,360
and exceed the bounds of conventional

549
00:24:52,909 --> 00:24:51,120
Frameworks particularly I would say like

550
00:24:54,649 --> 00:24:52,919
even the scientific method or like

551
00:24:56,870 --> 00:24:54,659
instrumentation measurement and

552
00:24:59,750 --> 00:24:56,880
laboratory settings Etc

553
00:25:02,630 --> 00:24:59,760
um and so um that's that's just actually

554
00:25:04,130 --> 00:25:02,640
my just sort of a comment I would be

555
00:25:06,230 --> 00:25:04,140
curious to hear any of your responses

556
00:25:07,730 --> 00:25:06,240
but I also loved what you said here

557
00:25:09,710 --> 00:25:07,740
about developing something of a

558
00:25:12,710 --> 00:25:09,720
curriculum or having kind of a shared

559
00:25:15,049 --> 00:25:12,720
reality or consensus on what constitutes

560
00:25:17,390 --> 00:25:15,059
the study of the UFO or the study of

561
00:25:19,010 --> 00:25:17,400
ufology I would love to hear you expand

562
00:25:21,409 --> 00:25:19,020
a little bit on what you would Envision

563
00:25:23,630 --> 00:25:21,419
that kind of curriculum to contain and

564
00:25:26,570 --> 00:25:23,640
what kind of materials you think would

565
00:25:29,930 --> 00:25:26,580
be useful to create a well-informed uh

566
00:25:32,870 --> 00:25:29,940
constituency in the subject

567
00:25:36,169 --> 00:25:32,880
well uh you know we could we can look at

568
00:25:39,049 --> 00:25:36,179
uh other uh

569
00:25:42,409 --> 00:25:39,059
say multi-disciplinary studies and and

570
00:25:44,090 --> 00:25:42,419
we can look at uh uh you know there's an

571
00:25:47,269 --> 00:25:44,100
established history there are definitely

572
00:25:49,850 --> 00:25:47,279
movements there's acronyms there's uh

573
00:25:53,210 --> 00:25:49,860
you know we know that we've seen the the

574
00:25:55,970 --> 00:25:53,220
history of UFOs and we've we've seen

575
00:25:58,070 --> 00:25:55,980
through documentaries you know like

576
00:25:59,870 --> 00:25:58,080
stuff that James Fox puts out you know

577
00:26:01,610 --> 00:25:59,880
great documentaries that sort of give

578
00:26:04,810 --> 00:26:01,620
you a review of the history

579
00:26:08,870 --> 00:26:04,820
but it to have an academic curriculum

580
00:26:11,210 --> 00:26:08,880
you definitely you're going to have to

581
00:26:12,169 --> 00:26:11,220
develop not only the history but you're

582
00:26:14,570 --> 00:26:12,179
going to have to go through the

583
00:26:16,850 --> 00:26:14,580
movements you're gonna have to go get

584
00:26:19,010 --> 00:26:16,860
expertise on uh you know the different

585
00:26:20,570 --> 00:26:19,020
government projects there's gonna need

586
00:26:24,350 --> 00:26:20,580
to be different multi-disciplinary

587
00:26:27,350 --> 00:26:24,360
approaches sociological psychological uh

588
00:26:29,090 --> 00:26:27,360
yeah it's you're going to have a basic

589
00:26:31,430 --> 00:26:29,100
uh program but you're also going to have

590
00:26:35,450 --> 00:26:31,440
to bring in all these other different uh

591
00:26:37,310 --> 00:26:35,460
uh Fields I I think a textbook like some

592
00:26:40,370 --> 00:26:37,320
sort of a basic textbook would be a good

593
00:26:43,130 --> 00:26:40,380
way to go and then uh have other courses

594
00:26:44,510 --> 00:26:43,140
that uh you know get into specifics I

595
00:26:47,210 --> 00:26:44,520
think some of this stuff can be done

596
00:26:50,330 --> 00:26:47,220
online uh

597
00:26:52,610 --> 00:26:50,340
some sort of accreditation uh type uh

598
00:26:54,649 --> 00:26:52,620
classroom you know where you go through

599
00:26:56,690 --> 00:26:54,659
like you know the UFOs of World War II

600
00:27:00,890 --> 00:26:56,700
uh you go through like the media

601
00:27:02,810 --> 00:27:00,900
influences of the 1950s uh you know all

602
00:27:04,970 --> 00:27:02,820
the different projects uh you know the

603
00:27:08,810 --> 00:27:04,980
the science fiction cultural influences

604
00:27:11,110 --> 00:27:08,820
of the 70s uh there's so much to work

605
00:27:14,690 --> 00:27:11,120
with there as well as the philosophical

606
00:27:17,269 --> 00:27:14,700
uh questions uh pertaining to you know

607
00:27:19,730 --> 00:27:17,279
what what is sufficient evidence you

608
00:27:22,370 --> 00:27:19,740
know the the what constitutes proper

609
00:27:23,990 --> 00:27:22,380
methodology what what is it gonna take

610
00:27:27,470 --> 00:27:24,000
uh

611
00:27:30,470 --> 00:27:27,480
to get these issues out there and and

612
00:27:34,450 --> 00:27:30,480
there's cultural impacts uh you know

613
00:27:38,690 --> 00:27:34,460
within the Arts uh television uh movies

614
00:27:39,769 --> 00:27:38,700
uh music uh you know I got a list of

615
00:27:43,130 --> 00:27:39,779
like

616
00:27:45,649 --> 00:27:43,140
almost 400 uh UFO and flying saucer

617
00:27:49,190 --> 00:27:45,659
related uh songs

618
00:27:53,149 --> 00:27:49,200
that can that you could do a whole

619
00:27:55,130 --> 00:27:53,159
you know uh semester uh course on and

620
00:27:58,250 --> 00:27:55,140
and there's a lot of stuff like that and

621
00:28:01,010 --> 00:27:58,260
there's UFO Cults and and specific cases

622
00:28:03,049 --> 00:28:01,020
and you know

623
00:28:07,250 --> 00:28:03,059
it it's something that I think should be

624
00:28:08,890 --> 00:28:07,260
talked about uh I I think

625
00:28:11,570 --> 00:28:08,900
whatever happens

626
00:28:14,090 --> 00:28:11,580
uh you know say there is a disclosure

627
00:28:17,870 --> 00:28:14,100
say there is some sort of a paradigm

628
00:28:19,669 --> 00:28:17,880
shift uh if that's the case then history

629
00:28:22,669 --> 00:28:19,679
is going to look back at all this no

630
00:28:24,769 --> 00:28:22,679
matter what uh you know so it's it's

631
00:28:27,529 --> 00:28:24,779
going to happen it's going to happen

632
00:28:30,769 --> 00:28:27,539
either one way or another unless the

633
00:28:33,649 --> 00:28:30,779
subject you know dies uh

634
00:28:35,269 --> 00:28:33,659
which is possible too you know I I think

635
00:28:37,909 --> 00:28:35,279
in the in the next few decades we're

636
00:28:39,529 --> 00:28:37,919
going to have drones and and fake videos

637
00:28:42,590 --> 00:28:39,539
and photographs they're going to make

638
00:28:44,450 --> 00:28:42,600
things a lot harder uh you know to to

639
00:28:46,310 --> 00:28:44,460
figure out what's real and what's not

640
00:28:49,010 --> 00:28:46,320
real

641
00:28:50,210 --> 00:28:49,020
um my my follow-up question to this

642
00:28:53,330 --> 00:28:50,220
um and then I'll turn the floor back

643
00:28:55,909 --> 00:28:53,340
over to the other gentleman here is if

644
00:28:59,390 --> 00:28:55,919
you have any recommendations on either

645
00:29:01,970 --> 00:28:59,400
organizations or individuals that are in

646
00:29:03,649 --> 00:29:01,980
your opinion doing this well

647
00:29:06,950 --> 00:29:03,659
um

648
00:29:09,289 --> 00:29:06,960
uh well there there's quite a few uh

649
00:29:14,169 --> 00:29:09,299
you're not going to see a lot of them on

650
00:29:17,390 --> 00:29:14,179
uh history UFO Twitter uh

651
00:29:19,909 --> 00:29:17,400
you might you might see them on UFO or

652
00:29:22,789 --> 00:29:19,919
on a History Channel occasionally but

653
00:29:24,889 --> 00:29:22,799
you know people like Dave marlar uh

654
00:29:26,810 --> 00:29:24,899
who's a friend of mine uh he's also from

655
00:29:28,730 --> 00:29:26,820
like the St Rose area

656
00:29:30,049 --> 00:29:28,740
uh great guy

657
00:29:32,450 --> 00:29:30,059
um

658
00:29:35,269 --> 00:29:32,460
some of the old-time people you know Jan

659
00:29:39,049 --> 00:29:35,279
Aldrich and and and researchers like

660
00:29:42,289 --> 00:29:39,059
that uh that that know the history that

661
00:29:45,230 --> 00:29:42,299
uh have engaged in field research that

662
00:29:48,409 --> 00:29:45,240
uh know the topics and and the issues I

663
00:29:50,990 --> 00:29:48,419
think there's uh uh I I I've always

664
00:29:54,230 --> 00:29:51,000
advocated for for like a mentoring

665
00:29:57,529 --> 00:29:54,240
system I I think

666
00:30:00,409 --> 00:29:57,539
um it used to be there you know and then

667
00:30:02,330 --> 00:30:00,419
it sort of didn't and uh

668
00:30:04,669 --> 00:30:02,340
but um

669
00:30:07,190 --> 00:30:04,679
yeah find yourself somebody who's been

670
00:30:09,950 --> 00:30:07,200
in it in a while you know somebody who's

671
00:30:11,930 --> 00:30:09,960
uh been a researcher for a few decades I

672
00:30:15,409 --> 00:30:11,940
think uh

673
00:30:17,810 --> 00:30:15,419
but again we're you know the Field's

674
00:30:20,269 --> 00:30:17,820
sort of a hodgepodge of a lot of

675
00:30:21,830 --> 00:30:20,279
different things you're uh there's so

676
00:30:25,730 --> 00:30:21,840
many different views there's so many

677
00:30:28,610 --> 00:30:25,740
different interpretations of of cases uh

678
00:30:31,630 --> 00:30:28,620
a lot of biases uh you have people

679
00:30:34,250 --> 00:30:31,640
within the field that are experiencers

680
00:30:37,970 --> 00:30:34,260
you know so they they have sort of an

681
00:30:40,549 --> 00:30:37,980
invested view of things and and it it is

682
00:30:43,789 --> 00:30:40,559
a cause to them you know it's almost you

683
00:30:46,070 --> 00:30:43,799
know they they proselytize uh the

684
00:30:48,470 --> 00:30:46,080
subject uh in a lot of ways because

685
00:30:53,269 --> 00:30:48,480
they're trying to get people into this

686
00:30:57,110 --> 00:30:53,279
uh this world view so uh it's

687
00:30:59,149 --> 00:30:57,120
it's tough uh I I would say

688
00:31:01,610 --> 00:30:59,159
like what you were saying Leah you know

689
00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:01,620
read some [\h__\h] or or some of the other

690
00:31:06,289 --> 00:31:04,320
uh uh the great philosophers of science

691
00:31:10,490 --> 00:31:06,299
start looking into that and start

692
00:31:12,889 --> 00:31:10,500
questioning uh you know who is being

693
00:31:16,970 --> 00:31:12,899
the critical thinker who is being

694
00:31:21,230 --> 00:31:16,980
rational who is uh being a celebrity or

695
00:31:24,549 --> 00:31:21,240
who has a particular narrative uh

696
00:31:27,889 --> 00:31:24,559
yeah you need to ask those things and uh

697
00:31:31,010 --> 00:31:27,899
gravitate towards uh uh people that are

698
00:31:33,230 --> 00:31:31,020
uh uh you know like Dave roller and and

699
00:31:35,210 --> 00:31:33,240
others I think

700
00:31:37,130 --> 00:31:35,220
well Michael you mentioned uh philosophy

701
00:31:40,010 --> 00:31:37,140
of science and

702
00:31:42,289 --> 00:31:40,020
um you know interpretation and

703
00:31:44,149 --> 00:31:42,299
um Carl popper talks about that a bit he

704
00:31:46,070 --> 00:31:44,159
talks about observation

705
00:31:47,269 --> 00:31:46,080
you know being the part of the

706
00:31:49,789 --> 00:31:47,279
scientific method where you're producing

707
00:31:52,130 --> 00:31:49,799
you know predict reliable uh predictions

708
00:31:54,529 --> 00:31:52,140
and then there's interpretation which is

709
00:31:56,630 --> 00:31:54,539
separate from observation and those are

710
00:31:57,710 --> 00:31:56,640
separate and equally important in his

711
00:31:59,630 --> 00:31:57,720
view

712
00:32:00,769 --> 00:31:59,640
um now on the side of observation is

713
00:32:03,110 --> 00:32:00,779
kind of interesting because a lot of the

714
00:32:05,930 --> 00:32:03,120
time the observations are pretty similar

715
00:32:07,669 --> 00:32:05,940
uh across a wide variety of people who

716
00:32:10,010 --> 00:32:07,679
take the subject seriously

717
00:32:11,210 --> 00:32:10,020
and the interpretations differ very

718
00:32:12,409 --> 00:32:11,220
widely but the most extraordinary

719
00:32:14,870 --> 00:32:12,419
interpretations are the ones that people

720
00:32:17,330 --> 00:32:14,880
are most familiar with

721
00:32:19,130 --> 00:32:17,340
um could you we talked a bit previously

722
00:32:22,130 --> 00:32:19,140
about how interpretations are shaped

723
00:32:23,750 --> 00:32:22,140
heavily by your primary social group and

724
00:32:24,710 --> 00:32:23,760
I'd love it if you could just talk a

725
00:32:26,750 --> 00:32:24,720
little bit

726
00:32:29,149 --> 00:32:26,760
um about the circumstances where you're

727
00:32:31,610 --> 00:32:29,159
encouraged um to actually engage with

728
00:32:34,250 --> 00:32:31,620
paranormal phenomena in your uh home

729
00:32:36,289 --> 00:32:34,260
growing up uh and uh and how you were

730
00:32:37,490 --> 00:32:36,299
shaped in your interpretations of those

731
00:32:40,490 --> 00:32:37,500
things and how you sort of developed

732
00:32:42,230 --> 00:32:40,500
your current uh approach that is uh you

733
00:32:44,630 --> 00:32:42,240
know sort of holding back from those

734
00:32:46,789 --> 00:32:44,640
more extraordinary interpretations

735
00:32:49,250 --> 00:32:46,799
uh well um

736
00:32:51,409 --> 00:32:49,260
it may seem like I'm holding back from

737
00:32:53,450 --> 00:32:51,419
those extraordinary extraordinary

738
00:32:54,529 --> 00:32:53,460
interpretations but it really depends on

739
00:32:56,210 --> 00:32:54,539
the case

740
00:32:59,930 --> 00:32:56,220
and it really depends on the evidence

741
00:33:02,570 --> 00:32:59,940
that we're talking about uh I'm not a

742
00:33:04,730 --> 00:33:02,580
close-minded skeptic I you know I've

743
00:33:07,549 --> 00:33:04,740
been involved in this subject for 46

744
00:33:09,710 --> 00:33:07,559
years like I said so I've seen a lot

745
00:33:13,009 --> 00:33:09,720
I've read a lot and I've experienced a

746
00:33:15,470 --> 00:33:13,019
lot as a paranormal travel writer uh I

747
00:33:18,889 --> 00:33:15,480
spend more time in haunted locations

748
00:33:21,230 --> 00:33:18,899
than I do UFO locations and you know I

749
00:33:23,690 --> 00:33:21,240
visit dozens and dozens of these to

750
00:33:26,330 --> 00:33:23,700
document them every year as well as

751
00:33:28,190 --> 00:33:26,340
Cryptids and and I go to a lot of these

752
00:33:29,570 --> 00:33:28,200
different conferences and I experience

753
00:33:33,590 --> 00:33:29,580
things

754
00:33:36,830 --> 00:33:33,600
and uh you know for me

755
00:33:39,230 --> 00:33:36,840
it's not just experiencing it it's not

756
00:33:40,850 --> 00:33:39,240
just documenting it although I have

757
00:33:42,409 --> 00:33:40,860
documented quite a few interesting

758
00:33:45,470 --> 00:33:42,419
things

759
00:33:48,169 --> 00:33:45,480
um ultimately we need to start

760
00:33:50,750 --> 00:33:48,179
figuring out

761
00:33:52,669 --> 00:33:50,760
how we're going to overcome things like

762
00:33:55,130 --> 00:33:52,679
what Leah was saying you know in

763
00:33:57,049 --> 00:33:55,140
commensurability issues you know we're

764
00:33:58,909 --> 00:33:57,059
dealing with the transient phenomena

765
00:34:01,730 --> 00:33:58,919
that we don't even know

766
00:34:03,470 --> 00:34:01,740
how to research it okay and we keep

767
00:34:06,169 --> 00:34:03,480
saying it because we want to put

768
00:34:08,570 --> 00:34:06,179
everything in the one thing okay and

769
00:34:11,389 --> 00:34:08,580
some of them may be connected but the

770
00:34:13,909 --> 00:34:11,399
only way that we're going to really be

771
00:34:15,409 --> 00:34:13,919
able to study them because we don't want

772
00:34:19,250 --> 00:34:15,419
to just believe

773
00:34:22,669 --> 00:34:19,260
okay I'm open to a ghost existing

774
00:34:26,089 --> 00:34:22,679
I'm open to a dog man existing I'm open

775
00:34:28,070 --> 00:34:26,099
to a portal opening up and being from

776
00:34:32,930 --> 00:34:28,080
another dimension coming here

777
00:34:35,570 --> 00:34:32,940
okay oh yeah I don't bring the woo man I

778
00:34:38,030 --> 00:34:35,580
don't want to just believe it I want to

779
00:34:40,730 --> 00:34:38,040
know it and I want to understand it if

780
00:34:43,250 --> 00:34:40,740
something is coming into our material

781
00:34:44,750 --> 00:34:43,260
world that we exist in and we can have a

782
00:34:47,030 --> 00:34:44,760
whole debate on whether or not it's

783
00:34:48,889 --> 00:34:47,040
really a material world or a hologram or

784
00:34:49,669 --> 00:34:48,899
you know whatever

785
00:34:51,889 --> 00:34:49,679
um

786
00:34:54,050 --> 00:34:51,899
sorry we're stuck in the material world

787
00:34:57,349 --> 00:34:54,060
that's all we have to work with right

788
00:34:59,150 --> 00:34:57,359
now okay and we have logic and we have

789
00:35:01,310 --> 00:34:59,160
critical thinking we and we have

790
00:35:03,950 --> 00:35:01,320
methodology and that's how we come about

791
00:35:06,829 --> 00:35:03,960
understanding things not just believing

792
00:35:09,109 --> 00:35:06,839
it okay so I want to go to a place where

793
00:35:11,510 --> 00:35:09,119
there's consistently a portal and I want

794
00:35:13,370 --> 00:35:11,520
to scientifically study that not write a

795
00:35:17,450 --> 00:35:13,380
book about it or do a TV show about it

796
00:35:19,990 --> 00:35:17,460
okay let's figure out how it works

797
00:35:23,210 --> 00:35:20,000
okay if there's a ghost in this building

798
00:35:25,910 --> 00:35:23,220
okay we need to localize it that's why I

799
00:35:27,710 --> 00:35:25,920
do my GPS stuff and we need to study at

800
00:35:29,329 --> 00:35:27,720
long term scientifically not in an

801
00:35:31,490 --> 00:35:29,339
exploited way

802
00:35:33,230 --> 00:35:31,500
but scientifically and if there is

803
00:35:35,270 --> 00:35:33,240
something there and I can tell you this

804
00:35:36,950 --> 00:35:35,280
folks there are places where there are

805
00:35:39,950 --> 00:35:36,960
things there

806
00:35:42,589 --> 00:35:39,960
there are places where things happen

807
00:35:46,069 --> 00:35:42,599
dude I love this keep going not happen

808
00:35:48,170 --> 00:35:46,079
there are things I will tell you this as

809
00:35:50,390 --> 00:35:48,180
a Paranormal Investigator as a

810
00:35:54,710 --> 00:35:50,400
researcher the most common thing that

811
00:35:57,650 --> 00:35:54,720
happens the most common paranormal event

812
00:36:00,170 --> 00:35:57,660
is synchronicities

813
00:36:02,210 --> 00:36:00,180
and you would not believe the amount of

814
00:36:04,010 --> 00:36:02,220
synchronicities that I experience as I'm

815
00:36:05,810 --> 00:36:04,020
going from one paranormal place to

816
00:36:08,750 --> 00:36:05,820
another okay

817
00:36:11,089 --> 00:36:08,760
little things words you know how words

818
00:36:12,470 --> 00:36:11,099
align and all that sort of stuff but you

819
00:36:14,150 --> 00:36:12,480
know when it gets to a certain point

820
00:36:16,730 --> 00:36:14,160
where you're recognizing those things

821
00:36:18,650 --> 00:36:16,740
and and and you know we can discuss

822
00:36:20,930 --> 00:36:18,660
whether or not there's biases and all

823
00:36:22,550 --> 00:36:20,940
that but uh

824
00:36:24,170 --> 00:36:22,560
you know when you're when you're aware

825
00:36:26,030 --> 00:36:24,180
of these things and you're looking for

826
00:36:27,589 --> 00:36:26,040
things when you're looking for a

827
00:36:30,230 --> 00:36:27,599
photographic anomalies and all that

828
00:36:33,950 --> 00:36:30,240
stuff and and things to happen a certain

829
00:36:35,690 --> 00:36:33,960
way in in certain places it goes beyond

830
00:36:37,730 --> 00:36:35,700
probability

831
00:36:41,210 --> 00:36:37,740
and I don't think it goes beyond the

832
00:36:43,609 --> 00:36:41,220
impossible because I'm coming from

833
00:36:44,569 --> 00:36:43,619
logical scientific philosophy of science

834
00:36:45,829 --> 00:36:44,579
base

835
00:36:48,589 --> 00:36:45,839
okay

836
00:36:50,450 --> 00:36:48,599
there's an explanation for something as

837
00:36:52,910 --> 00:36:50,460
to how something works

838
00:36:53,930 --> 00:36:52,920
and and and I think the universe is

839
00:36:56,569 --> 00:36:53,940
probably

840
00:36:57,770 --> 00:36:56,579
you know practical I think Chaos Theory

841
00:37:00,349 --> 00:36:57,780
sort of

842
00:37:02,750 --> 00:37:00,359
controls how things work within it so

843
00:37:07,730 --> 00:37:02,760
they're they're probably places and

844
00:37:10,010 --> 00:37:07,740
times and and and areas that uh you know

845
00:37:11,390 --> 00:37:10,020
where some of the probability stuff just

846
00:37:13,370 --> 00:37:11,400
breaks down

847
00:37:15,650 --> 00:37:13,380
and I'm interested in that because I

848
00:37:18,410 --> 00:37:15,660
think that's how we can overcome

849
00:37:22,069 --> 00:37:18,420
uh you know in commensurability because

850
00:37:25,670 --> 00:37:22,079
what it commensurability has got us is

851
00:37:28,430 --> 00:37:25,680
we're you know Bigfoot is is UFOs

852
00:37:30,470 --> 00:37:28,440
Bigfoot as fairies UFOs or fairies you

853
00:37:31,849 --> 00:37:30,480
know uh Gins you know we're sort of

854
00:37:35,930 --> 00:37:31,859
bringing all these different religious

855
00:37:37,310 --> 00:37:35,940
archetypes thank you Jacques delay uh to

856
00:37:39,349 --> 00:37:37,320
try to explain a lot of different

857
00:37:42,710 --> 00:37:39,359
Mysteries and and that's what we need to

858
00:37:46,730 --> 00:37:42,720
look each Mystery on its own Merit

859
00:37:49,849 --> 00:37:46,740
each bit of evidence on its own Merit

860
00:37:51,170 --> 00:37:49,859
and not every case is going to have the

861
00:37:52,849 --> 00:37:51,180
same cause

862
00:37:56,930 --> 00:37:52,859
that is a fact

863
00:37:59,450 --> 00:37:56,940
in fact most cases BS most cases you

864
00:38:02,270 --> 00:37:59,460
know are misinterpretations hoaxes you

865
00:38:04,010 --> 00:38:02,280
know people seeing stuff uh real

866
00:38:09,050 --> 00:38:04,020
anomalies

867
00:38:11,930 --> 00:38:09,060
anomalous locations an anomalous objects

868
00:38:15,470 --> 00:38:11,940
anomalous uh beings creatures you know

869
00:38:19,310 --> 00:38:15,480
any sort of thing uh that uh

870
00:38:23,450 --> 00:38:19,320
that is anomalous uh

871
00:38:26,089 --> 00:38:23,460
yeah it's it it exists it's it and it's

872
00:38:29,510 --> 00:38:26,099
worthy of study and uh that's where

873
00:38:30,770 --> 00:38:29,520
science should be and ufology has not

874
00:38:33,770 --> 00:38:30,780
done any

875
00:38:35,210 --> 00:38:33,780
right since the 80s you know and people

876
00:38:40,010 --> 00:38:35,220
are writing books people are writing

877
00:38:41,990 --> 00:38:40,020
screenplays uh doing all that but uh uh

878
00:38:44,030 --> 00:38:42,000
conferences used to be about presenting

879
00:38:51,230 --> 00:38:44,040
papers

880
00:38:53,690 --> 00:38:51,240
know

881
00:38:56,329 --> 00:38:53,700
um and I've been I've been lobbying the

882
00:38:57,470 --> 00:38:56,339
field uh probably about eight or nine

883
00:39:00,890 --> 00:38:57,480
years now

884
00:39:03,230 --> 00:39:00,900
uh lobbying people like uh Rich Hoffman

885
00:39:06,530 --> 00:39:03,240
you know eight years ago back when he

886
00:39:08,870 --> 00:39:06,540
was with mufon you know different people

887
00:39:10,490 --> 00:39:08,880
uh telling him to move in the scientific

888
00:39:11,450 --> 00:39:10,500
Direction

889
00:39:14,329 --> 00:39:11,460
um

890
00:39:17,089 --> 00:39:14,339
it's sort of going that way it's sort of

891
00:39:21,109 --> 00:39:17,099
been co-opted in a lot of ways I I worry

892
00:39:23,750 --> 00:39:21,119
about Galileo I worry about you know the

893
00:39:25,910 --> 00:39:23,760
politics and the arrow and and all this

894
00:39:27,050 --> 00:39:25,920
sort of stuff I I think we're getting

895
00:39:32,030 --> 00:39:27,060
more

896
00:39:34,609 --> 00:39:32,040
uh Shenanigans uh you know sorry to tell

897
00:39:36,230 --> 00:39:34,619
you guys been when you're when you're

898
00:39:39,050 --> 00:39:36,240
around for four decades and more

899
00:39:41,870 --> 00:39:39,060
watching this stuff the spies are

900
00:39:45,530 --> 00:39:41,880
everywhere and they cannot stop messing

901
00:39:48,410 --> 00:39:45,540
with the subject and they they cannot

902
00:39:50,210 --> 00:39:48,420
stop whispering to politicians to get

903
00:39:51,109 --> 00:39:50,220
them to spend money that they're gonna

904
00:39:53,089 --> 00:39:51,119
get

905
00:39:55,430 --> 00:39:53,099
and you know this game's been around for

906
00:39:57,770 --> 00:39:55,440
a while and it's delegitimizing and it

907
00:39:59,530 --> 00:39:57,780
continues to be legitimizing and you

908
00:40:02,870 --> 00:39:59,540
fotainment continues to be

909
00:40:04,910 --> 00:40:02,880
delegitimizing conferences can continue

910
00:40:06,950 --> 00:40:04,920
to be delegitimizing

911
00:40:10,270 --> 00:40:06,960
some people think this is the Golden Age

912
00:40:13,849 --> 00:40:10,280
of UFOs I say it's the Dark Ages

913
00:40:15,410 --> 00:40:13,859
so if there is if there is a um

914
00:40:18,950 --> 00:40:15,420
intelligence um

915
00:40:21,290 --> 00:40:18,960
involvement what is the purport of that

916
00:40:23,750 --> 00:40:21,300
well I don't think there's like you you

917
00:40:26,450 --> 00:40:23,760
know some big giant government cabal I

918
00:40:29,630 --> 00:40:26,460
think it's it's Politics as Usual

919
00:40:31,490 --> 00:40:29,640
you know uh people in intelligence when

920
00:40:33,170 --> 00:40:31,500
they get out of intelligence they go to

921
00:40:35,210 --> 00:40:33,180
work for firms and then they try to

922
00:40:38,270 --> 00:40:35,220
influence uh spending in a certain area

923
00:40:43,490 --> 00:40:38,280
I think there is also a a group of

924
00:40:47,990 --> 00:40:45,829
you know it's got a sad conspiratorial

925
00:40:50,750 --> 00:40:48,000
that anybody that wants to challenge me

926
00:40:53,569 --> 00:40:50,760
on this anybody in the field that says

927
00:40:55,010 --> 00:40:53,579
that this this didn't happen

928
00:40:57,710 --> 00:40:55,020
let's go

929
00:41:00,770 --> 00:40:57,720
this has been going on since the 90s

930
00:41:03,230 --> 00:41:00,780
Robert Bigelow came in and he was

931
00:41:06,230 --> 00:41:03,240
wanting to get this subject

932
00:41:09,050 --> 00:41:06,240
you know because of

933
00:41:11,930 --> 00:41:09,060
friends like George and app and and his

934
00:41:13,910 --> 00:41:11,940
own belief system and you know he rubbed

935
00:41:16,190 --> 00:41:13,920
elbows with Harry Reid and people like

936
00:41:18,050 --> 00:41:16,200
that and throughout the 90s you know

937
00:41:20,569 --> 00:41:18,060
they were able to you know funnel some

938
00:41:23,150 --> 00:41:20,579
money and into the 2000s they were able

939
00:41:25,550 --> 00:41:23,160
to funnel money into you know these

940
00:41:27,230 --> 00:41:25,560
these different topics and these and

941
00:41:30,349 --> 00:41:27,240
these these groups that have been around

942
00:41:32,230 --> 00:41:30,359
since the 70s you know SRI and Stargate

943
00:41:37,089 --> 00:41:32,240
and all these people that have basically

944
00:41:41,870 --> 00:41:37,099
lived on this Fringe area of research

945
00:41:43,550 --> 00:41:41,880
and the way you perpetuate that is you

946
00:41:46,490 --> 00:41:43,560
have to work at it you have to

947
00:41:47,870 --> 00:41:46,500
perpetuate it you know and uh you know

948
00:41:49,970 --> 00:41:47,880
these people have been working at these

949
00:41:52,430 --> 00:41:49,980
government programs looking at the

950
00:41:55,910 --> 00:41:52,440
spooky stuff sort of hidden away with

951
00:41:59,810 --> 00:41:55,920
Within These compartmentalized uh groups

952
00:42:04,010 --> 00:42:02,270
I'm sorry you know it was I was going to

953
00:42:06,109 --> 00:42:04,020
jump in and just comment as well that I

954
00:42:08,450 --> 00:42:06,119
don't think it necessitates believing in

955
00:42:10,790 --> 00:42:08,460
some far-reaching conspiratorial cabal

956
00:42:12,349 --> 00:42:10,800
to acknowledge that there are sort of

957
00:42:15,829 --> 00:42:12,359
forces within the government or within

958
00:42:17,870 --> 00:42:15,839
the military that either address or hold

959
00:42:20,990 --> 00:42:17,880
themselves to particular philosophical

960
00:42:22,370 --> 00:42:21,000
or theological interpretations of what

961
00:42:24,470 --> 00:42:22,380
this is I think about all the Christian

962
00:42:26,210 --> 00:42:24,480
dominionists that have effectively taken

963
00:42:29,450 --> 00:42:26,220
over the U.S Air Force and space force

964
00:42:32,810 --> 00:42:29,460
who see anything anomalous as demonic or

965
00:42:34,069 --> 00:42:32,820
a source of evil or satanic forces and

966
00:42:35,930 --> 00:42:34,079
you don't really need a conspiracy

967
00:42:37,490 --> 00:42:35,940
theory to to know that this is stuff

968
00:42:39,170 --> 00:42:37,500
that's pretty openly talked about I mean

969
00:42:41,089 --> 00:42:39,180
this is stuff that [\h__\h] yeah Ted Cruz

970
00:42:41,990 --> 00:42:41,099
talks about this stuff

971
00:42:43,910 --> 00:42:42,000
um yeah

972
00:42:45,650 --> 00:42:43,920
and I wanted to to surface a question

973
00:42:47,210 --> 00:42:45,660
from one of our audience members here at

974
00:42:49,069 --> 00:42:47,220
tiff-tastic

975
00:42:50,510 --> 00:42:49,079
um she says she's a big fan

976
00:42:52,310 --> 00:42:50,520
um and wants to know if you could expand

977
00:42:54,589 --> 00:42:52,320
on your point about political operatives

978
00:42:56,030 --> 00:42:54,599
infiltrating the topic um I know you

979
00:42:57,470 --> 00:42:56,040
just talked a little bit about that but

980
00:42:59,630 --> 00:42:57,480
if you have any more color to add I'm

981
00:43:02,089 --> 00:42:59,640
sure she would appreciate it

982
00:43:05,569 --> 00:43:02,099
well it's it's not so much political

983
00:43:08,450 --> 00:43:05,579
operatives as operatives infiltrating

984
00:43:09,609 --> 00:43:08,460
the topic and then using the topic for

985
00:43:12,290 --> 00:43:09,619
politics

986
00:43:14,170 --> 00:43:12,300
uh that's sort of a different thing and

987
00:43:16,910 --> 00:43:14,180
Supremacy

988
00:43:20,510 --> 00:43:16,920
xenophobia yeah we see a lot of that

989
00:43:22,730 --> 00:43:20,520
right I mean at semitism that's I mean

990
00:43:24,130 --> 00:43:22,740
you have a lot of different viewpoints

991
00:43:25,750 --> 00:43:24,140
uh

992
00:43:29,150 --> 00:43:25,760
within

993
00:43:31,309 --> 00:43:29,160
conspiratorial Realms and disclosure

994
00:43:33,950 --> 00:43:31,319
people may not think that they're

995
00:43:36,530 --> 00:43:33,960
conspiratorial but their whole basis is

996
00:43:38,750 --> 00:43:36,540
that there's a conspiracy you know to

997
00:43:40,790 --> 00:43:38,760
cover up an alien reality and that the

998
00:43:42,589 --> 00:43:40,800
government has evidence and they are

999
00:43:45,170 --> 00:43:42,599
suppressing it and that's sort of the

1000
00:43:47,690 --> 00:43:45,180
you know the whole basis behind that is

1001
00:43:50,870 --> 00:43:47,700
a conspiracy notion which has come from

1002
00:43:53,329 --> 00:43:50,880
the culture and has come from UFO media

1003
00:43:56,270 --> 00:43:53,339
uh

1004
00:43:58,670 --> 00:43:56,280
building up a a narrative and there's

1005
00:44:01,250 --> 00:43:58,680
legitimate stuff that's that that's

1006
00:44:02,870 --> 00:44:01,260
worthy of consideration in there as long

1007
00:44:05,329 --> 00:44:02,880
as it's looked at

1008
00:44:07,190 --> 00:44:05,339
in a legitimate way and not in a way

1009
00:44:09,710 --> 00:44:07,200
that is promoting any sort of narrative

1010
00:44:12,650 --> 00:44:09,720
you know which I I I worry about Arrow

1011
00:44:14,809 --> 00:44:12,660
now you know Angela brand and sort of

1012
00:44:17,630 --> 00:44:14,819
being influenced by only one particular

1013
00:44:19,790 --> 00:44:17,640
view uh

1014
00:44:21,890 --> 00:44:19,800
sort of you know within this threat

1015
00:44:26,630 --> 00:44:21,900
narrative in order to create a political

1016
00:44:29,990 --> 00:44:26,640
circumstance uh but there has been uh uh

1017
00:44:32,210 --> 00:44:30,000
official intelligence involvement uh you

1018
00:44:33,230 --> 00:44:32,220
know within the the subject since its

1019
00:44:36,069 --> 00:44:33,240
beginning

1020
00:44:40,069 --> 00:44:36,079
uh I don't think it's ever stopped

1021
00:44:41,510 --> 00:44:40,079
really uh I I think even a lot of the uh

1022
00:44:44,569 --> 00:44:41,520
you know the so-called whistleblowers

1023
00:44:47,089 --> 00:44:44,579
are ex-spies uh they're still working

1024
00:44:49,309 --> 00:44:47,099
within the intelligence Community they

1025
00:44:52,250 --> 00:44:49,319
still retain their you know some of them

1026
00:44:55,069 --> 00:44:52,260
their their intelligence uh

1027
00:44:55,970 --> 00:44:55,079
uh classification and such so

1028
00:44:59,089 --> 00:44:55,980
um

1029
00:45:01,130 --> 00:44:59,099
yeah it's it's easy to be paranoid

1030
00:45:04,309 --> 00:45:01,140
when you're in this subject for a long

1031
00:45:07,730 --> 00:45:04,319
enough time and you've interacted with

1032
00:45:10,849 --> 00:45:07,740
intelligence people you know

1033
00:45:13,910 --> 00:45:10,859
Majestic 12. anybody uh you know there

1034
00:45:17,630 --> 00:45:13,920
there's the history is replete with you

1035
00:45:20,750 --> 00:45:17,640
know uh Blue Book uh messing around with

1036
00:45:23,210 --> 00:45:20,760
things and Condon and and if you don't

1037
00:45:26,690 --> 00:45:23,220
know the history of that you don't you

1038
00:45:29,990 --> 00:45:26,700
need to open up some books I I go to my

1039
00:45:32,630 --> 00:45:30,000
Facebook I got a great uh for you to

1040
00:45:34,069 --> 00:45:32,640
read at and and and that's what we need

1041
00:45:36,109 --> 00:45:34,079
to do too

1042
00:45:38,510 --> 00:45:36,119
people need to read

1043
00:45:41,089 --> 00:45:38,520
and when I say read I don't mean read

1044
00:45:44,530 --> 00:45:41,099
all of you know Twitter or anything

1045
00:45:49,250 --> 00:45:44,540
secret or you know Tom belongs books

1046
00:45:52,849 --> 00:45:49,260
yeah whatever and I'm saying read dozens

1047
00:45:57,170 --> 00:45:52,859
of you know real you know history of the

1048
00:45:59,390 --> 00:45:57,180
of the subjects uh there's there's so

1049
00:46:02,390 --> 00:45:59,400
much more there's there's such a wealth

1050
00:46:04,010 --> 00:46:02,400
out there of of information that we

1051
00:46:06,829 --> 00:46:04,020
don't need to keep Reinventing the wheel

1052
00:46:09,010 --> 00:46:06,839
just so we can you know beat it the

1053
00:46:11,930 --> 00:46:09,020
quarter barrel drop you know

1054
00:46:14,930 --> 00:46:11,940
it also feels like the current kind of

1055
00:46:19,190 --> 00:46:14,940
flap is very much serving as a trojan

1056
00:46:22,250 --> 00:46:19,200
horse to drive a lot of these uh

1057
00:46:25,190 --> 00:46:22,260
militaristic defense narratives

1058
00:46:27,050 --> 00:46:25,200
um it feels a lot like it I think for

1059
00:46:28,790 --> 00:46:27,060
these small segment of the population

1060
00:46:31,550 --> 00:46:28,800
that genuinely cares about this stuff

1061
00:46:33,589 --> 00:46:31,560
it's a very effective vehicle not only

1062
00:46:35,510 --> 00:46:33,599
for undermining faith and government

1063
00:46:37,250 --> 00:46:35,520
institutions and sort of dismantling

1064
00:46:38,750 --> 00:46:37,260
consensus reality right this is why I

1065
00:46:41,089 --> 00:46:38,760
think like Tucker Carlson brings these

1066
00:46:43,670 --> 00:46:41,099
guys on his show but also

1067
00:46:46,550 --> 00:46:43,680
um as opportunities to bring larger

1068
00:46:48,829 --> 00:46:46,560
conversations about threat narratives uh

1069
00:46:51,950 --> 00:46:48,839
and Espionage in drum up uh I think

1070
00:46:53,750 --> 00:46:51,960
increased militarization

1071
00:46:55,190 --> 00:46:53,760
as well I mean that's sort of what we

1072
00:46:56,890 --> 00:46:55,200
were seeing about this whole balloon

1073
00:46:59,329 --> 00:46:56,900
flap and shine

1074
00:47:01,250 --> 00:46:59,339
look at how people reacted to that

1075
00:47:04,670 --> 00:47:01,260
Chinese balloon

1076
00:47:07,490 --> 00:47:04,680
it's gnarly yeah and it's not even I

1077
00:47:10,690 --> 00:47:07,500
mean it's a legitimate threat narrative

1078
00:47:12,950 --> 00:47:10,700
it's always been legitimate anything

1079
00:47:14,710 --> 00:47:12,960
anytime something is flying in our

1080
00:47:17,569 --> 00:47:14,720
airspace that we don't know what it is

1081
00:47:18,770 --> 00:47:17,579
you know it's it

1082
00:47:24,589 --> 00:47:18,780
it's

1083
00:47:27,410 --> 00:47:24,599
um I think what you're saying Leah is

1084
00:47:31,609 --> 00:47:27,420
you know has there been a a concerted

1085
00:47:34,010 --> 00:47:31,619
effort to bring this forward in order to

1086
00:47:34,970 --> 00:47:34,020
influence defense policy and the answer

1087
00:47:36,829 --> 00:47:34,980
is yes

1088
00:47:39,770 --> 00:47:36,839
and the balloon thing even brought that

1089
00:47:41,750 --> 00:47:39,780
home even more and yeah that that was a

1090
00:47:43,670 --> 00:47:41,760
way you know to sell it you know if the

1091
00:47:45,650 --> 00:47:43,680
Chinese didn't send those balloons I

1092
00:47:47,510 --> 00:47:45,660
mean we could have sent them ourselves

1093
00:47:50,030 --> 00:47:47,520
if we're trying to influence you know

1094
00:47:53,270 --> 00:47:50,040
intelligence politics we could have done

1095
00:47:56,990 --> 00:47:53,280
it ourselves but uh

1096
00:47:59,809 --> 00:47:57,000
really that there is I think

1097
00:48:02,930 --> 00:47:59,819
within the subject and and

1098
00:48:04,910 --> 00:48:02,940
people that study UFOs also need to get

1099
00:48:07,370 --> 00:48:04,920
outside of UFOs they need to study the

1100
00:48:10,730 --> 00:48:07,380
history of Aviation

1101
00:48:13,430 --> 00:48:10,740
you need to study drones they need to

1102
00:48:15,109 --> 00:48:13,440
study meteorology they geology you know

1103
00:48:17,030 --> 00:48:15,119
there's a lot of other things that you

1104
00:48:21,109 --> 00:48:17,040
need to study in order to have you know

1105
00:48:22,849 --> 00:48:21,119
philosophy like I said uh but drones

1106
00:48:23,510 --> 00:48:22,859
really I think

1107
00:48:26,589 --> 00:48:23,520
um

1108
00:48:29,390 --> 00:48:26,599
there is a secret drone war going on

1109
00:48:33,530 --> 00:48:29,400
and uh

1110
00:48:35,270 --> 00:48:33,540
if it's not like a war war it's uh

1111
00:48:36,770 --> 00:48:35,280
it's almost there and people are

1112
00:48:37,910 --> 00:48:36,780
thinking about it and people are

1113
00:48:41,809 --> 00:48:37,920
thinking about

1114
00:48:44,150 --> 00:48:41,819
you know a non-equal actors uh because I

1115
00:48:46,849 --> 00:48:44,160
can tell you this I know this for a fact

1116
00:48:49,250 --> 00:48:46,859
there are secret drone groups out there

1117
00:48:51,589 --> 00:48:49,260
that do a lot of this stuff

1118
00:48:55,250 --> 00:48:51,599
and they do it on purpose and they have

1119
00:48:57,050 --> 00:48:55,260
fun and they test the boundaries uh you

1120
00:48:59,210 --> 00:48:57,060
know I I come across you know as a

1121
00:49:01,370 --> 00:48:59,220
travel writer you know urbex people and

1122
00:49:03,230 --> 00:49:01,380
and people that like to trespass and go

1123
00:49:06,170 --> 00:49:03,240
into places and there's a whole

1124
00:49:08,510 --> 00:49:06,180
subculture of people that make their

1125
00:49:11,569 --> 00:49:08,520
drones look like UFOs and like to fly

1126
00:49:15,170 --> 00:49:11,579
into military bases there just are you

1127
00:49:16,910 --> 00:49:15,180
know and some of these cases are that

1128
00:49:18,410 --> 00:49:16,920
and that's why we need to look at things

1129
00:49:21,290 --> 00:49:18,420
individually because

1130
00:49:23,329 --> 00:49:21,300
some may be a drone some may be an

1131
00:49:24,950 --> 00:49:23,339
interdimensional crap you know I'm open

1132
00:49:26,870 --> 00:49:24,960
to that

1133
00:49:29,450 --> 00:49:26,880
um I'm open to proving it and I'm open

1134
00:49:31,670 --> 00:49:29,460
to understanding it you know not

1135
00:49:32,450 --> 00:49:31,680
just saying it

1136
00:49:35,329 --> 00:49:32,460
um

1137
00:49:38,809 --> 00:49:35,339
but yeah there's there there's a drone

1138
00:49:41,990 --> 00:49:38,819
war going on and uh within the next few

1139
00:49:43,609 --> 00:49:42,000
years not just a drone War but a

1140
00:49:46,609 --> 00:49:43,619
corporate

1141
00:49:48,770 --> 00:49:46,619
takeover of the skies because within the

1142
00:49:50,510 --> 00:49:48,780
next 10 or 15 years our sky is going to

1143
00:49:51,950 --> 00:49:50,520
be partitioned

1144
00:49:53,870 --> 00:49:51,960
businesses are going to be doing

1145
00:49:56,270 --> 00:49:53,880
deliveries through drones

1146
00:49:58,910 --> 00:49:56,280
we might have flying cars guys we're

1147
00:50:02,030 --> 00:49:58,920
going to have robot car certainly within

1148
00:50:04,910 --> 00:50:02,040
the next 10 15 years so picture in in 20

1149
00:50:06,530 --> 00:50:04,920
25 years the sky is flying around with

1150
00:50:10,010 --> 00:50:06,540
all sorts of things

1151
00:50:13,730 --> 00:50:10,020
right and The Fifth Element

1152
00:50:16,790 --> 00:50:13,740
the government wants all that stuff they

1153
00:50:18,589 --> 00:50:16,800
want every square inch to be accounted

1154
00:50:21,829 --> 00:50:18,599
for because they don't want crap flying

1155
00:50:25,130 --> 00:50:21,839
into each other so they want the skies

1156
00:50:27,530 --> 00:50:25,140
partitioned what they want is this guy

1157
00:50:29,450 --> 00:50:27,540
to be monitored all all the cameras that

1158
00:50:31,490 --> 00:50:29,460
are pointing at us are eventually going

1159
00:50:34,370 --> 00:50:31,500
to be also pointed at the sky

1160
00:50:37,069 --> 00:50:34,380
because our roadways are going to become

1161
00:50:40,430 --> 00:50:37,079
the sky as well so there's not just a

1162
00:50:42,050 --> 00:50:40,440
drone War there's you know sort of a and

1163
00:50:45,890 --> 00:50:42,060
you're seeing a lot of these UAP

1164
00:50:48,349 --> 00:50:45,900
businesses popping up because

1165
00:50:50,030 --> 00:50:48,359
that's what they're they're really going

1166
00:50:53,870 --> 00:50:50,040
to be about UAV

1167
00:50:56,450 --> 00:50:53,880
and they're really going to be about uh

1168
00:50:58,069 --> 00:50:56,460
land in the sky you know these these

1169
00:51:00,589 --> 00:50:58,079
corridors are going to be controlled and

1170
00:51:02,750 --> 00:51:00,599
bought and owned and and that's what

1171
00:51:05,089 --> 00:51:02,760
there's a lot of that going on too and

1172
00:51:07,130 --> 00:51:05,099
there's also we got to worry about uh

1173
00:51:09,890 --> 00:51:07,140
Chinese drones because they are real

1174
00:51:12,829 --> 00:51:09,900
guys they have drones they have bomb uh

1175
00:51:15,170 --> 00:51:12,839
balloons that can drop drones uh you

1176
00:51:18,410 --> 00:51:15,180
know study your Aviation there's a lot

1177
00:51:20,569 --> 00:51:18,420
of information out there uh

1178
00:51:22,130 --> 00:51:20,579
if you're really into UFOs you should

1179
00:51:24,410 --> 00:51:22,140
know what's in the sky

1180
00:51:27,049 --> 00:51:24,420
period you know it's sort of a

1181
00:51:29,210 --> 00:51:27,059
no-brainer uh a lot of people are too

1182
00:51:32,210 --> 00:51:29,220
busy uh you know fighting on Twitter to

1183
00:51:35,089 --> 00:51:32,220
to really do the studying that's

1184
00:51:36,650 --> 00:51:35,099
necessary and uh hopefully we can we can

1185
00:51:38,690 --> 00:51:36,660
get some reform or at least get people

1186
00:51:40,849 --> 00:51:38,700
talking about it and maybe get a reform

1187
00:51:41,930 --> 00:51:40,859
conference and and talk about the future

1188
00:51:44,630 --> 00:51:41,940
you know everybody's talking about

1189
00:51:48,829 --> 00:51:44,640
steering ships and all that but who made

1190
00:51:50,089 --> 00:51:48,839
you Captain right you know so uh the

1191
00:51:51,950 --> 00:51:50,099
community if it's going to be a

1192
00:51:55,490 --> 00:51:51,960
community it needs to start acting like

1193
00:51:58,190 --> 00:51:55,500
a community and not Game of Thrones

1194
00:51:59,990 --> 00:51:58,200
well back for the um back to the

1195
00:52:02,569 --> 00:52:00,000
paradigm shift that you alluded to

1196
00:52:04,910 --> 00:52:02,579
earlier if you think it's coming like

1197
00:52:07,309 --> 00:52:04,920
what do you think of the um

1198
00:52:09,470 --> 00:52:07,319
the broad Contours of it like what is

1199
00:52:11,329 --> 00:52:09,480
the actual phenomenon to use that word

1200
00:52:14,150 --> 00:52:11,339
again that you think might be going on

1201
00:52:16,130 --> 00:52:14,160
well I you know is there a singular

1202
00:52:18,650 --> 00:52:16,140
phenomenon

1203
00:52:20,150 --> 00:52:18,660
uh what does that mean does that

1204
00:52:22,670 --> 00:52:20,160
singular phenomena account for

1205
00:52:24,069 --> 00:52:22,680
everything because it can't because some

1206
00:52:26,750 --> 00:52:24,079
of those

1207
00:52:28,309 --> 00:52:26,760
interpretations that people have are

1208
00:52:30,770 --> 00:52:28,319
sort of contradictory to other

1209
00:52:33,349 --> 00:52:30,780
interpretations and we know through

1210
00:52:36,710 --> 00:52:33,359
evidence that uh some interpretations

1211
00:52:39,950 --> 00:52:36,720
are just wrong so just logically

1212
00:52:42,290 --> 00:52:39,960
speaking we we have to throw out the

1213
00:52:45,650 --> 00:52:42,300
idea of singular phenomenon

1214
00:52:48,109 --> 00:52:45,660
uh are there a variety of phenomena

1215
00:52:50,630 --> 00:52:48,119
there that account for you know aerial

1216
00:52:54,589 --> 00:52:50,640
anomalies or even ghosts or Cryptids or

1217
00:52:56,930 --> 00:52:54,599
whatever I I think uh there possibly are

1218
00:52:59,270 --> 00:52:56,940
I think you might have

1219
00:53:01,849 --> 00:52:59,280
some sort of temporal anomaly you might

1220
00:53:04,609 --> 00:53:01,859
have a location that induces some sort

1221
00:53:06,950 --> 00:53:04,619
of hallucinogenic effect you might have

1222
00:53:08,990 --> 00:53:06,960
an area where geological activity that

1223
00:53:11,329 --> 00:53:09,000
can create some sort of buoyant plasmas

1224
00:53:13,910 --> 00:53:11,339
you know that are you know Natural Earth

1225
00:53:16,270 --> 00:53:13,920
lights uh

1226
00:53:19,069 --> 00:53:16,280
are they extraterrestrial maybe

1227
00:53:21,109 --> 00:53:19,079
extraterrestrials are here as well okay

1228
00:53:23,690 --> 00:53:21,119
uh but if we're going to understand

1229
00:53:27,049 --> 00:53:23,700
these things we need to truly understand

1230
00:53:30,770 --> 00:53:27,059
them and not just speculate on them you

1231
00:53:32,930 --> 00:53:30,780
know you the field is uh Rife with

1232
00:53:35,690 --> 00:53:32,940
speculation we need to get beyond the

1233
00:53:37,910 --> 00:53:35,700
speculation and get to the you know the

1234
00:53:39,910 --> 00:53:37,920
data I think

1235
00:53:43,010 --> 00:53:39,920
um

1236
00:53:46,309 --> 00:53:43,020
let me just uh answer you know as far as

1237
00:53:48,829 --> 00:53:46,319
uh the Paradigm aspect to it

1238
00:53:51,049 --> 00:53:48,839
is there Discovery Science to be had

1239
00:53:51,770 --> 00:53:51,059
absolutely

1240
00:53:54,530 --> 00:53:51,780
um

1241
00:53:55,609 --> 00:53:54,540
you know it if there is a localized

1242
00:54:00,170 --> 00:53:55,619
place

1243
00:54:04,549 --> 00:54:00,180
that is electromagnetic or you know it

1244
00:54:07,089 --> 00:54:04,559
is a a particular GPS place

1245
00:54:09,650 --> 00:54:07,099
that consistently

1246
00:54:12,109 --> 00:54:09,660
demonstrates anomalies you know beyond

1247
00:54:13,790 --> 00:54:12,119
probability measures and we can do

1248
00:54:14,630 --> 00:54:13,800
probability measures that's how we

1249
00:54:17,450 --> 00:54:14,640
should be

1250
00:54:19,549 --> 00:54:17,460
finding areas to research you know not

1251
00:54:21,589 --> 00:54:19,559
Catalina Island because the TV show said

1252
00:54:24,650 --> 00:54:21,599
it should be based upon actual

1253
00:54:27,410 --> 00:54:24,660
scientific data uh

1254
00:54:30,950 --> 00:54:27,420
we need to understand it you know I'm

1255
00:54:32,990 --> 00:54:30,960
open to say a ghost existing but

1256
00:54:35,329 --> 00:54:33,000
what we need is that ghost in a bottle

1257
00:54:37,270 --> 00:54:35,339
or we need some sort of instrumentation

1258
00:54:41,569 --> 00:54:37,280
to where we can understand

1259
00:54:43,609 --> 00:54:41,579
what is comprised of you know how is a

1260
00:54:45,950 --> 00:54:43,619
Consciousness able to move around and

1261
00:54:48,890 --> 00:54:45,960
interact materially what is the

1262
00:54:51,290 --> 00:54:48,900
connecting aspect between the two there

1263
00:54:53,450 --> 00:54:51,300
may be some sort of Discovery Science

1264
00:54:56,870 --> 00:54:53,460
you know within Quantum science a lot of

1265
00:54:59,390 --> 00:54:56,880
people are suggesting that that uh you

1266
00:55:01,549 --> 00:54:59,400
know the spooky action stuff and and US

1267
00:55:04,910 --> 00:55:01,559
observing and creating our reality

1268
00:55:06,530 --> 00:55:04,920
somehow can you know affect matter or

1269
00:55:09,290 --> 00:55:06,540
the whole notion of a you know a

1270
00:55:12,829 --> 00:55:09,300
holographic reality yeah if this is all

1271
00:55:14,750 --> 00:55:12,839
holographic hologram or holograph that's

1272
00:55:18,349 --> 00:55:14,760
you know and we're doing what the

1273
00:55:19,790 --> 00:55:18,359
program says I guess so uh uh yeah

1274
00:55:24,049 --> 00:55:19,800
there's always something to be learned

1275
00:55:26,870 --> 00:55:24,059
uh there are paradigms uh to be shifted

1276
00:55:29,329 --> 00:55:26,880
and changed it may even be an

1277
00:55:32,150 --> 00:55:29,339
extraterrestrial visitation one

1278
00:55:35,270 --> 00:55:32,160
okay uh but there's gonna be a high

1279
00:55:37,549 --> 00:55:35,280
threshold of of

1280
00:55:40,370 --> 00:55:37,559
what consensus is gonna

1281
00:55:42,049 --> 00:55:40,380
need to happen in order to get that

1282
00:55:44,390 --> 00:55:42,059
Paradigm to change

1283
00:55:46,790 --> 00:55:44,400
uh it it won't be through government

1284
00:55:48,410 --> 00:55:46,800
Proclamation it's going to be through

1285
00:55:50,870 --> 00:55:48,420
scientific evidence

1286
00:55:52,609 --> 00:55:50,880
you know uh it's not going to be through

1287
00:55:53,450 --> 00:55:52,619
intuition it's not going to be through a

1288
00:55:56,109 --> 00:55:53,460
vote

1289
00:55:59,510 --> 00:55:56,119
uh it's going to be through

1290
00:56:01,190 --> 00:55:59,520
demonstrative science uh even if you're

1291
00:56:03,530 --> 00:56:01,200
saying that you can't demonstrate the

1292
00:56:06,349 --> 00:56:03,540
science you're you're not going to

1293
00:56:09,650 --> 00:56:06,359
convince anybody but beyond just faith

1294
00:56:12,530 --> 00:56:09,660
you know yeah just you know trust me uh

1295
00:56:15,470 --> 00:56:12,540
witness testimony is a good place to

1296
00:56:17,870 --> 00:56:15,480
start but witness testimonies within the

1297
00:56:20,089 --> 00:56:17,880
scientific realm is is really weak

1298
00:56:22,670 --> 00:56:20,099
evidence even photographic and video

1299
00:56:24,710 --> 00:56:22,680
evidences weak secondary evidence we

1300
00:56:26,870 --> 00:56:24,720
need long-term sustained scientific

1301
00:56:28,490 --> 00:56:26,880
monitoring of something in order to

1302
00:56:31,430 --> 00:56:28,500
understand it we need a ghost in a

1303
00:56:34,430 --> 00:56:31,440
bottle we need a piece of UFO metal uh

1304
00:56:36,890 --> 00:56:34,440
you know we need a Bigfoot hair you know

1305
00:56:39,650 --> 00:56:36,900
we need we need the evidence you know

1306
00:56:42,349 --> 00:56:39,660
and and people like Ted Phillips in

1307
00:56:44,870 --> 00:56:42,359
Missouri uh that's the sort of ufology

1308
00:56:47,210 --> 00:56:44,880
that I I want to get back at the

1309
00:56:50,210 --> 00:56:47,220
mentoring system you know heineck was

1310
00:56:52,250 --> 00:56:50,220
his mentor you know and uh what did he

1311
00:56:54,349 --> 00:56:52,260
do he went out to these places thousands

1312
00:56:56,109 --> 00:56:54,359
of them went to the spot where people

1313
00:56:58,670 --> 00:56:56,119
saw stuff

1314
00:57:00,470 --> 00:56:58,680
engaged the location engaged the

1315
00:57:03,230 --> 00:57:00,480
phenomena gather data gathered

1316
00:57:05,569 --> 00:57:03,240
information gathered evidence and

1317
00:57:07,010 --> 00:57:05,579
documented it and that stuff's sitting

1318
00:57:09,589 --> 00:57:07,020
there right now

1319
00:57:10,970 --> 00:57:09,599
you know there's a lot of stuff that's

1320
00:57:14,150 --> 00:57:10,980
sitting there right now not being

1321
00:57:17,030 --> 00:57:14,160
utilized and you know we're doing all

1322
00:57:18,950 --> 00:57:17,040
the political stuff and it's just uh we

1323
00:57:21,230 --> 00:57:18,960
need some reform

1324
00:57:23,630 --> 00:57:21,240
so you uh you talk a lot about

1325
00:57:25,670 --> 00:57:23,640
um in cases of anomalies not not just

1326
00:57:27,530 --> 00:57:25,680
aerial anomalies localized anomalies and

1327
00:57:29,569 --> 00:57:27,540
stuff you you talk about looking at them

1328
00:57:32,030 --> 00:57:29,579
in isolation right because we're kind of

1329
00:57:33,829 --> 00:57:32,040
presuming that maybe the same causes are

1330
00:57:35,630 --> 00:57:33,839
going behind these and you kind of

1331
00:57:38,510 --> 00:57:35,640
attribute that to you valet in that time

1332
00:57:40,190 --> 00:57:38,520
period where we kind of uh people start

1333
00:57:43,010 --> 00:57:40,200
looking for a kind of a grand unified

1334
00:57:45,470 --> 00:57:43,020
theory of UFOs and other phenomenon but

1335
00:57:47,930 --> 00:57:45,480
I wonder if kind of like the cultural

1336
00:57:49,910 --> 00:57:47,940
understanding of UFOs is that like you

1337
00:57:51,950 --> 00:57:49,920
admitted has existed since back in the

1338
00:57:53,390 --> 00:57:51,960
70s and a lot earlier I mean really

1339
00:57:55,370 --> 00:57:53,400
since the 40s

1340
00:57:57,589 --> 00:57:55,380
um yeah do you think that that is

1341
00:57:59,870 --> 00:57:57,599
influencing people too much because like

1342
00:58:01,430 --> 00:57:59,880
personally like how do you draw the

1343
00:58:02,750 --> 00:58:01,440
distinction between a spook light or

1344
00:58:04,250 --> 00:58:02,760
nocturnal lights

1345
00:58:05,750 --> 00:58:04,260
because I would say that those are more

1346
00:58:07,490 --> 00:58:05,760
similar than nocturnal lights in a

1347
00:58:08,890 --> 00:58:07,500
daylight disc right where are you

1348
00:58:12,290 --> 00:58:08,900
drawing that line in between

1349
00:58:14,270 --> 00:58:12,300
poltergeists and uh psychokinesis right

1350
00:58:16,370 --> 00:58:14,280
do you think that the um kind of the

1351
00:58:19,309 --> 00:58:16,380
general cultural understanding of what a

1352
00:58:21,170 --> 00:58:19,319
UFO is hinders the study of the the

1353
00:58:23,030 --> 00:58:21,180
topic and actually contributes to the

1354
00:58:25,490 --> 00:58:23,040
stigma

1355
00:58:27,950 --> 00:58:25,500
well uh I don't

1356
00:58:30,290 --> 00:58:27,960
think there's as much of a stigma as

1357
00:58:32,450 --> 00:58:30,300
people think that there is I don't think

1358
00:58:34,790 --> 00:58:32,460
where you know people are necessarily

1359
00:58:37,670 --> 00:58:34,800
losing their jobs or whatever you know

1360
00:58:40,190 --> 00:58:37,680
within the military well within the

1361
00:58:42,470 --> 00:58:40,200
military and you know industrial you

1362
00:58:45,109 --> 00:58:42,480
know apparatus people get

1363
00:58:47,390 --> 00:58:45,119
passed over for a variety of different

1364
00:58:50,450 --> 00:58:47,400
views and there are camps you know there

1365
00:58:51,650 --> 00:58:50,460
are uh people with religious views and

1366
00:58:53,870 --> 00:58:51,660
and

1367
00:58:57,049 --> 00:58:53,880
views the other way you know we can't

1368
00:58:59,150 --> 00:58:57,059
there's a Collins Elite you have to know

1369
00:59:01,069 --> 00:58:59,160
that there's an invisible College

1370
00:59:03,230 --> 00:59:01,079
that these people talk to each other

1371
00:59:06,770 --> 00:59:03,240
that these you know there's an invisible

1372
00:59:10,390 --> 00:59:06,780
night school there is right but there's

1373
00:59:13,849 --> 00:59:10,400
an invisible invisible College you know

1374
00:59:15,170 --> 00:59:13,859
and Leslie Keane and and Lou and all

1375
00:59:17,809 --> 00:59:15,180
these people haven't been talking to

1376
00:59:19,069 --> 00:59:17,819
each other for years I mean you don't

1377
00:59:21,530 --> 00:59:19,079
know the subject

1378
00:59:23,510 --> 00:59:21,540
you know and and they have they've been

1379
00:59:25,730 --> 00:59:23,520
working towards this you know towards an

1380
00:59:28,430 --> 00:59:25,740
agenda and and there are camps and there

1381
00:59:30,770 --> 00:59:28,440
are viewpoints but uh you know maybe

1382
00:59:32,990 --> 00:59:30,780
back in the 50s in the 60s you may have

1383
00:59:35,569 --> 00:59:33,000
had you know the you know the those

1384
00:59:38,329 --> 00:59:35,579
old-time guys that you know ah that

1385
00:59:39,710 --> 00:59:38,339
guy's a loon I'm not gonna hire that guy

1386
00:59:40,370 --> 00:59:39,720
or whatever

1387
00:59:42,770 --> 00:59:40,380
um

1388
00:59:46,010 --> 00:59:42,780
but you know you you got that sort of

1389
00:59:48,049 --> 00:59:46,020
thing now I I have never

1390
00:59:50,210 --> 00:59:48,059
well maybe it's just my personality

1391
00:59:54,370 --> 00:59:50,220
because I don't give a [\h__\h] but I I've

1392
00:59:57,670 --> 00:59:54,380
never felt bad about talking about UFOs

1393
01:00:00,710 --> 00:59:57,680
with me you know there you go

1394
01:00:02,930 --> 01:00:00,720
more in the sense that like

1395
01:00:05,089 --> 01:00:02,940
serious academics aren't giving it the

1396
01:00:07,010 --> 01:00:05,099
time just because they associate it with

1397
01:00:10,370 --> 01:00:07,020
the stories they understand culture yeah

1398
01:00:13,370 --> 01:00:10,380
there's that individual level well you

1399
01:00:16,549 --> 01:00:13,380
know a lot of academics are not educated

1400
01:00:19,430 --> 01:00:16,559
in the subject and you know they they

1401
01:00:22,069 --> 01:00:19,440
are part of the culture too and they see

1402
01:00:24,049 --> 01:00:22,079
you know a Cheesy documentary and they

1403
01:00:26,270 --> 01:00:24,059
think oh that's pseudoscience I'm within

1404
01:00:30,049 --> 01:00:26,280
the subject I believe in proposed I've

1405
01:00:32,450 --> 01:00:30,059
had encounters you know uh and I say

1406
01:00:35,750 --> 01:00:32,460
that you know that's pseudoscience crap

1407
01:00:37,309 --> 01:00:35,760
what are we doing you know or that's a

1408
01:00:39,470 --> 01:00:37,319
bunch of baloney that's not scientific

1409
01:00:41,210 --> 01:00:39,480
why are you doing that that's not the

1410
01:00:43,250 --> 01:00:41,220
location why are you doing that the UFO

1411
01:00:44,750 --> 01:00:43,260
didn't look like that the history is all

1412
01:00:48,430 --> 01:00:44,760
wrong that you know that that show

1413
01:00:54,230 --> 01:00:51,289
well I you know I guess for a science

1414
01:00:57,109 --> 01:00:54,240
fiction X-Files rip-off it was okay but

1415
01:01:00,109 --> 01:00:57,119
you know what you did not need to do all

1416
01:01:02,630 --> 01:01:00,119
that crap the real story is so much more

1417
01:01:05,390 --> 01:01:02,640
interesting the real cases are so much

1418
01:01:07,670 --> 01:01:05,400
more interesting than any machination

1419
01:01:10,250 --> 01:01:07,680
that you know people can come up with so

1420
01:01:13,069 --> 01:01:10,260
people see that that stuff that

1421
01:01:15,470 --> 01:01:13,079
entertainment or the manipulative stuff

1422
01:01:17,329 --> 01:01:15,480
or you know the the the the bad

1423
01:01:19,309 --> 01:01:17,339
documentaries and

1424
01:01:21,770 --> 01:01:19,319
even people within

1425
01:01:23,870 --> 01:01:21,780
you know Academia see that stuff and

1426
01:01:27,890 --> 01:01:23,880
they they say you know that's baloney

1427
01:01:31,370 --> 01:01:27,900
and uh that's on us every

1428
01:01:32,990 --> 01:01:31,380
that's sort of my my notion that I've

1429
01:01:35,450 --> 01:01:33,000
had that

1430
01:01:38,150 --> 01:01:35,460
you know for so long ufology has been

1431
01:01:39,890 --> 01:01:38,160
like oh the government

1432
01:01:42,349 --> 01:01:39,900
and the media and the culture

1433
01:01:43,849 --> 01:01:42,359
everybody's out against us and you know

1434
01:01:45,589 --> 01:01:43,859
it's their fault that we don't know the

1435
01:01:47,089 --> 01:01:45,599
truth they're the ones hiding it and all

1436
01:01:48,410 --> 01:01:47,099
that and it's like

1437
01:01:51,530 --> 01:01:48,420
no

1438
01:01:55,370 --> 01:01:51,540
it's your fault ufology it's your fault

1439
01:01:57,710 --> 01:01:55,380
UFO Community you have not brought it

1440
01:01:59,329 --> 01:01:57,720
you have not learned philosophy of

1441
01:02:00,950 --> 01:01:59,339
science enough to change the Paradigm

1442
01:02:02,990 --> 01:02:00,960
you talked about paradigm shift but you

1443
01:02:04,250 --> 01:02:03,000
don't know what the hell that means you

1444
01:02:05,630 --> 01:02:04,260
know and you're not producing anything

1445
01:02:07,309 --> 01:02:05,640
you're not producing anything but

1446
01:02:08,990 --> 01:02:07,319
euphotainment and there's nothing wrong

1447
01:02:11,569 --> 01:02:09,000
with that but there needs to be a

1448
01:02:14,089 --> 01:02:11,579
balance and I and I I think we can fund

1449
01:02:16,370 --> 01:02:14,099
a lot of the science stuff if we you

1450
01:02:19,569 --> 01:02:16,380
know tell Ancient Aliens to cough up ten

1451
01:02:22,609 --> 01:02:19,579
percent or anything kind of cough up 10

1452
01:02:24,829 --> 01:02:22,619
or you know all these UFO celebrities

1453
01:02:27,530 --> 01:02:24,839
that are going on UFO cruises to cough

1454
01:02:30,170 --> 01:02:27,540
up 10 of your cruise money

1455
01:02:32,510 --> 01:02:30,180
okay and some people say oh you don't

1456
01:02:34,609 --> 01:02:32,520
make a lot yeah you may not make a lot

1457
01:02:36,230 --> 01:02:34,619
at a conference but you'll make a lot if

1458
01:02:38,089 --> 01:02:36,240
you're doing a conference every week and

1459
01:02:40,789 --> 01:02:38,099
in between that you're doing TV shows

1460
01:02:42,650 --> 01:02:40,799
and you're also selling books you know

1461
01:02:43,990 --> 01:02:42,660
you can you can

1462
01:02:47,690 --> 01:02:44,000
buy a house

1463
01:02:49,970 --> 01:02:47,700
yes a lot of this reminds me sort of of

1464
01:02:51,650 --> 01:02:49,980
the spectrum of spirituality that exists

1465
01:02:53,510 --> 01:02:51,660
where we have these like mega churches

1466
01:02:56,210 --> 01:02:53,520
that function as entertainment Vehicles

1467
01:02:58,430 --> 01:02:56,220
like glossing is a good example

1468
01:03:00,109 --> 01:02:58,440
um all the way through the spectrum of

1469
01:03:02,510 --> 01:03:00,119
say like dedicated devotional practice

1470
01:03:04,370 --> 01:03:02,520
or lay practice that does not exist on

1471
01:03:05,809 --> 01:03:04,380
big screens or on Twitter it exists very

1472
01:03:07,430 --> 01:03:05,819
privately

1473
01:03:12,250 --> 01:03:07,440
um and it seems to me it's so evident

1474
01:03:14,089 --> 01:03:12,260
that ufology overlaid with new age

1475
01:03:16,670 --> 01:03:14,099
metaphysics

1476
01:03:18,010 --> 01:03:16,680
spirituality Etc suffers from the same

1477
01:03:20,750 --> 01:03:18,020
kind of

1478
01:03:23,630 --> 01:03:20,760
problem where you have this entire

1479
01:03:26,210 --> 01:03:23,640
Spectrum ranging from just buffoonish

1480
01:03:29,150 --> 01:03:26,220
vacuous entertainment and gullibility

1481
01:03:30,589 --> 01:03:29,160
all the way through people that are

1482
01:03:33,289 --> 01:03:30,599
quite quite serious and one of the

1483
01:03:35,030 --> 01:03:33,299
things watching right now we have uh

1484
01:03:36,049 --> 01:03:35,040
Jeff and one of the things he talks

1485
01:03:37,670 --> 01:03:36,059
about a lot is basically how the

1486
01:03:39,589 --> 01:03:37,680
greatest researchers in this subject are

1487
01:03:41,329 --> 01:03:39,599
not generally publicly visible like the

1488
01:03:42,829 --> 01:03:41,339
best research and conversations that are

1489
01:03:44,329 --> 01:03:42,839
happening around ufology they're

1490
01:03:46,490 --> 01:03:44,339
certainly not happening on UFO Twitter

1491
01:03:48,650 --> 01:03:46,500
that's for damn sure maybe some of it's

1492
01:03:50,270 --> 01:03:48,660
happening on Facebook but most of it's

1493
01:03:52,970 --> 01:03:50,280
happening kind of in these uh I would

1494
01:03:55,609 --> 01:03:52,980
say private like research enclaves

1495
01:03:58,069 --> 01:03:55,619
um and that to me feels like finding

1496
01:04:00,470 --> 01:03:58,079
finding opportunities and ways to bridge

1497
01:04:02,270 --> 01:04:00,480
the gaps between these enclaves into

1498
01:04:04,190 --> 01:04:02,280
some kind of distributed network of

1499
01:04:05,990 --> 01:04:04,200
information sharing and distribution to

1500
01:04:08,089 --> 01:04:06,000
me seems like super promising especially

1501
01:04:09,289 --> 01:04:08,099
as a lot of these Old Guard guys you

1502
01:04:10,789 --> 01:04:09,299
know they live in houses filled with

1503
01:04:12,230 --> 01:04:10,799
archive boxes and like how do we know

1504
01:04:15,230 --> 01:04:12,240
what they have how do we sort of connect

1505
01:04:17,329 --> 01:04:15,240
dots between different research efforts

1506
01:04:19,309 --> 01:04:17,339
I think that's really important for you

1507
01:04:21,829 --> 01:04:19,319
know kind of new people and Mike you

1508
01:04:24,470 --> 01:04:21,839
mentioned all these kind of post 2017

1509
01:04:26,510 --> 01:04:24,480
people kind of onboarding and the first

1510
01:04:28,849 --> 01:04:26,520
thing they hit is this kind of wall of

1511
01:04:31,670 --> 01:04:28,859
ufootenate media and I'll use kind of an

1512
01:04:32,990 --> 01:04:31,680
analogy um any new paranormal

1513
01:04:34,970 --> 01:04:33,000
investigation group or a ghost hunter

1514
01:04:37,370 --> 01:04:34,980
group the first thing they do is go out

1515
01:04:38,990 --> 01:04:37,380
and buy EMF meters you ask any Ghost

1516
01:04:41,030 --> 01:04:39,000
Hunter why they use them and they

1517
01:04:43,190 --> 01:04:41,040
couldn't tell you so I'm just kind of

1518
01:04:44,990 --> 01:04:43,200
wondering if the kind of UFO narrative

1519
01:04:47,510 --> 01:04:45,000
effects we all culturally understand it

1520
01:04:49,730 --> 01:04:47,520
in the states is kind of hindering

1521
01:04:51,650 --> 01:04:49,740
people from the jump as they approach

1522
01:04:52,910 --> 01:04:51,660
because that is just kind of the most

1523
01:04:55,490 --> 01:04:52,920
prominent

1524
01:04:58,130 --> 01:04:55,500
um kind of perspective on the subject

1525
01:05:00,470 --> 01:04:58,140
and how do you get around that well I I

1526
01:05:03,289 --> 01:05:00,480
think uh you know entertainment science

1527
01:05:05,510 --> 01:05:03,299
you know as far as the Paranormal has

1528
01:05:07,670 --> 01:05:05,520
sort of been locked

1529
01:05:12,289 --> 01:05:07,680
uh you know the past three or four

1530
01:05:13,789 --> 01:05:12,299
decades maybe uh into you know

1531
01:05:16,010 --> 01:05:13,799
you know they're driving there and then

1532
01:05:18,230 --> 01:05:16,020
they do the background supposition thing

1533
01:05:20,150 --> 01:05:18,240
and they've already they already know

1534
01:05:21,289 --> 01:05:20,160
the lore and all that sort of stuff and

1535
01:05:24,770 --> 01:05:21,299
it's just you know they're going through

1536
01:05:27,950 --> 01:05:24,780
a theatrical sort of thing it's not a

1537
01:05:29,870 --> 01:05:27,960
it's not a real investigation right I

1538
01:05:31,670 --> 01:05:29,880
I've challenged bigfooters I have

1539
01:05:34,970 --> 01:05:31,680
challenged UFO people and I've

1540
01:05:37,069 --> 01:05:34,980
challenged Ghost Hunters and I'm just a

1541
01:05:39,170 --> 01:05:37,079
dude with opinions if you think I'm an

1542
01:05:40,130 --> 01:05:39,180
arrogant [\h__\h] that's fine I probably

1543
01:05:42,890 --> 01:05:40,140
am

1544
01:05:45,109 --> 01:05:42,900
you don't have to listen to me but guess

1545
01:05:47,150 --> 01:05:45,119
what I'm not going anywhere I have an

1546
01:05:49,390 --> 01:05:47,160
opinion I can say it

1547
01:05:52,789 --> 01:05:49,400
don't like it tough

1548
01:05:54,829 --> 01:05:52,799
but I will say you know that

1549
01:05:56,750 --> 01:05:54,839
if we're if you're if you're trying to

1550
01:05:58,789 --> 01:05:56,760
be an Entertainer

1551
01:06:01,250 --> 01:05:58,799
I guess you gotta go that route right

1552
01:06:02,809 --> 01:06:01,260
yeah you gotta engage it you gotta play

1553
01:06:05,390 --> 01:06:02,819
the game and you got to read the script

1554
01:06:07,270 --> 01:06:05,400
and you gotta get put the makeup on and

1555
01:06:09,410 --> 01:06:07,280
you gotta have the camera pointed at you

1556
01:06:11,150 --> 01:06:09,420
instead of pointing the camera at the

1557
01:06:14,690 --> 01:06:11,160
anomaly

1558
01:06:16,370 --> 01:06:14,700
right uh so you know the the cameras are

1559
01:06:18,770 --> 01:06:16,380
sort of pointed in the in the wrong way

1560
01:06:20,510 --> 01:06:18,780
in a lot of ways and I think if we're if

1561
01:06:22,910 --> 01:06:20,520
we're legitimate and we're serious about

1562
01:06:25,609 --> 01:06:22,920
pointing the cameras in the right way it

1563
01:06:27,650 --> 01:06:25,619
needs to be a scientific methodological

1564
01:06:30,470 --> 01:06:27,660
program

1565
01:06:32,450 --> 01:06:30,480
not not an entertainment one where you

1566
01:06:34,609 --> 01:06:32,460
bring you know stars of Ancient Aliens

1567
01:06:37,370 --> 01:06:34,619
and stuff to do rituals at your location

1568
01:06:40,490 --> 01:06:37,380
or whatever I guess that makes for okay

1569
01:06:42,589 --> 01:06:40,500
TV but it's delegitimizing if you're

1570
01:06:44,390 --> 01:06:42,599
trying to be legitimate if you're trying

1571
01:06:45,410 --> 01:06:44,400
to be legitimate what you want is you

1572
01:06:47,569 --> 01:06:45,420
one day

1573
01:06:49,970 --> 01:06:47,579
and what you want

1574
01:06:52,670 --> 01:06:49,980
if you have a haunted house

1575
01:06:55,430 --> 01:06:52,680
turn the lights on

1576
01:06:57,770 --> 01:06:55,440
right get the house for a couple of

1577
01:07:00,829 --> 01:06:57,780
years put cameras and Equipment

1578
01:07:05,210 --> 01:07:00,839
everywhere set up an array of scientific

1579
01:07:07,670 --> 01:07:05,220
equipment and monitor it for years yeah

1580
01:07:11,150 --> 01:07:07,680
the funny nobody around looking at the

1581
01:07:13,190 --> 01:07:11,160
in the green camera you know acting

1582
01:07:15,770 --> 01:07:13,200
shocked and you know meanwhile the

1583
01:07:18,230 --> 01:07:15,780
anomaly is over there you know that's

1584
01:07:20,870 --> 01:07:18,240
Bigfoot shows that's UFO shows and

1585
01:07:22,789 --> 01:07:20,880
that's ghost shows absolutely James Fox

1586
01:07:25,250 --> 01:07:22,799
has done that

1587
01:07:27,170 --> 01:07:25,260
all your Bigfoot people you know your

1588
01:07:29,750 --> 01:07:27,180
ghost Adventurer people they do all that

1589
01:07:32,150 --> 01:07:29,760
sort of thing but you know what if that

1590
01:07:33,829 --> 01:07:32,160
place is legitimately haunted or if that

1591
01:07:35,089 --> 01:07:33,839
place legitimately has some sort of

1592
01:07:37,490 --> 01:07:35,099
Cryptid

1593
01:07:39,010 --> 01:07:37,500
let's get rid of that stuff because like

1594
01:07:42,230 --> 01:07:39,020
you said

1595
01:07:45,170 --> 01:07:42,240
these things are have become cultural

1596
01:07:46,910 --> 01:07:45,180
archetypes through the media through

1597
01:07:49,270 --> 01:07:46,920
entertainment that's where we get it

1598
01:07:52,370 --> 01:07:49,280
people aren't reading scientific

1599
01:07:53,990 --> 01:07:52,380
journals about UFOs mostly because there

1600
01:07:56,089 --> 01:07:54,000
aren't any anymore

1601
01:07:57,829 --> 01:07:56,099
you know they're watching A History

1602
01:07:59,150 --> 01:07:57,839
Channel or a Discovery Channel or a

1603
01:08:02,930 --> 01:07:59,160
Travel Channel and they're watching

1604
01:08:05,569 --> 01:08:02,940
pseudoscience non-science uh UFO

1605
01:08:09,609 --> 01:08:05,579
celebrity people that are you know on

1606
01:08:12,410 --> 01:08:09,619
this it it's it's similar to Vaudeville

1607
01:08:15,349 --> 01:08:12,420
I know this because I traveled all these

1608
01:08:17,990 --> 01:08:15,359
things these they have tables and they

1609
01:08:19,789 --> 01:08:18,000
have you know all their stuff set up you

1610
01:08:21,890 --> 01:08:19,799
know because it's it's like a side show

1611
01:08:23,450 --> 01:08:21,900
it's it's a circus you're you're there

1612
01:08:25,550 --> 01:08:23,460
to see celebrities and take pictures

1613
01:08:28,430 --> 01:08:25,560
some of them charge money which I think

1614
01:08:30,169 --> 01:08:28,440
is freaking ridiculous you know I I just

1615
01:08:32,930 --> 01:08:30,179
wonder what people like heinek would

1616
01:08:35,269 --> 01:08:32,940
think you know well we have we actually

1617
01:08:37,370 --> 01:08:35,279
have a decent uh idea of that because Dr

1618
01:08:40,070 --> 01:08:37,380
heinek went and visited

1619
01:08:41,689 --> 01:08:40,080
um a few of the uh people uh like

1620
01:08:44,090 --> 01:08:41,699
Georgia damsky and he wrote about that

1621
01:08:45,530 --> 01:08:44,100
right he was pissed off that adamski

1622
01:08:48,470 --> 01:08:45,540
kept interrupting his own story to try

1623
01:08:50,510 --> 01:08:48,480
to sell him photos that he took of the

1624
01:08:52,070 --> 01:08:50,520
beings right that were right we found

1625
01:08:55,490 --> 01:08:52,080
out later were entirely fake which

1626
01:08:56,630 --> 01:08:55,500
heinek assumed at the time yeah so but

1627
01:08:57,890 --> 01:08:56,640
um you know talking a little bit about

1628
01:08:59,870 --> 01:08:57,900
the interpretation stuff and the

1629
01:09:02,510 --> 01:08:59,880
entertainment side of it and it's like

1630
01:09:05,749 --> 01:09:02,520
you know certain interpretations sell

1631
01:09:08,689 --> 01:09:05,759
right uh like if you lean into sort of

1632
01:09:10,370 --> 01:09:08,699
like interpretations that entail like

1633
01:09:12,349 --> 01:09:10,380
like you're sort of it was describing

1634
01:09:15,050 --> 01:09:12,359
earlier like a radical Paradigm Shift

1635
01:09:16,729 --> 01:09:15,060
it's uh the whole disclosure narrative

1636
01:09:19,729 --> 01:09:16,739
it's very similar to like a an

1637
01:09:22,490 --> 01:09:19,739
apocalyptic narrative people who kind of

1638
01:09:25,430 --> 01:09:22,500
are looking for a big change in the

1639
01:09:27,829 --> 01:09:25,440
world uh it appeals to them right and um

1640
01:09:30,229 --> 01:09:27,839
so I'm curious like for your

1641
01:09:32,450 --> 01:09:30,239
interpretive side like when there is

1642
01:09:35,030 --> 01:09:32,460
that draw that's such a strong draw that

1643
01:09:37,309 --> 01:09:35,040
people have for finding a interpretation

1644
01:09:39,890 --> 01:09:37,319
that is appealing to them is there any

1645
01:09:41,510 --> 01:09:39,900
benefit to providing an interpretation

1646
01:09:43,729 --> 01:09:41,520
of some kind

1647
01:09:45,349 --> 01:09:43,739
um you know not and not just saying we

1648
01:09:48,709 --> 01:09:45,359
don't know or that it could be a bunch

1649
01:09:49,849 --> 01:09:48,719
of things which it could well be um it

1650
01:09:51,470 --> 01:09:49,859
is interesting that many of the

1651
01:09:53,209 --> 01:09:51,480
scientists like high neck and valet and

1652
01:09:55,550 --> 01:09:53,219
all this like concluded that it was like

1653
01:09:57,650 --> 01:09:55,560
one thing ultimately which is you know

1654
01:09:59,510 --> 01:09:57,660
kind of intriguing to me but um is there

1655
01:10:01,970 --> 01:09:59,520
any value in doing interpretations to

1656
01:10:04,070 --> 01:10:01,980
kind of use evidence to draw people away

1657
01:10:06,110 --> 01:10:04,080
from those more entertainment based

1658
01:10:08,330 --> 01:10:06,120
extraordinary ones

1659
01:10:09,709 --> 01:10:08,340
well you know everything is open to

1660
01:10:13,370 --> 01:10:09,719
interpretation

1661
01:10:14,630 --> 01:10:13,380
if something is legitimately still

1662
01:10:17,930 --> 01:10:14,640
unknown

1663
01:10:20,510 --> 01:10:17,940
then it's always going to be that way

1664
01:10:21,709 --> 01:10:20,520
barring the absence of any additional

1665
01:10:24,770 --> 01:10:21,719
evidence

1666
01:10:26,390 --> 01:10:24,780
you know uh people have this idea that

1667
01:10:28,490 --> 01:10:26,400
somehow

1668
01:10:30,410 --> 01:10:28,500
you know let's talk about disclosure for

1669
01:10:32,090 --> 01:10:30,420
a second you know what that means

1670
01:10:34,910 --> 01:10:32,100
and it means different things to

1671
01:10:38,330 --> 01:10:34,920
different people but largely it means

1672
01:10:41,450 --> 01:10:38,340
you know an official confirmation

1673
01:10:44,030 --> 01:10:41,460
of alien reality

1674
01:10:48,350 --> 01:10:44,040
from a political Authority and maybe

1675
01:10:50,930 --> 01:10:48,360
with you know some sort of revelation of

1676
01:10:53,030 --> 01:10:50,940
you know an alien or you know some sort

1677
01:10:56,330 --> 01:10:53,040
of evidence that that supports that that

1678
01:10:59,630 --> 01:10:56,340
worldview or

1679
01:11:01,070 --> 01:10:59,640
the the hopeful idea for an undeniable

1680
01:11:03,290 --> 01:11:01,080
event

1681
01:11:05,870 --> 01:11:03,300
you know that that's another fantasy

1682
01:11:08,450 --> 01:11:05,880
within you know the disclosure realm if

1683
01:11:10,430 --> 01:11:08,460
people have ideas of you know that's

1684
01:11:12,490 --> 01:11:10,440
what they want and I think there's a lot

1685
01:11:15,770 --> 01:11:12,500
of people that have this fantasist view

1686
01:11:17,390 --> 01:11:15,780
of of and it's sort of you know if you

1687
01:11:18,890 --> 01:11:17,400
put yourself within that it's sort of

1688
01:11:20,630 --> 01:11:18,900
like a noble thing you know it's like

1689
01:11:22,729 --> 01:11:20,640
you're fighting the man you're getting

1690
01:11:25,250 --> 01:11:22,739
to the truth you know there's a secret

1691
01:11:27,470 --> 01:11:25,260
hidden you know X-Files type stuff right

1692
01:11:29,450 --> 01:11:27,480
you you if you grew up watching Fox

1693
01:11:31,970 --> 01:11:29,460
Mulder you get to be it

1694
01:11:33,470 --> 01:11:31,980
and or you get to LARP it or pretend to

1695
01:11:34,610 --> 01:11:33,480
be it you know

1696
01:11:38,390 --> 01:11:34,620
um

1697
01:11:41,870 --> 01:11:38,400
but as far as an underlying uh uh truth

1698
01:11:43,550 --> 01:11:41,880
with within all that uh I think there's

1699
01:11:45,830 --> 01:11:43,560
a lot of truths

1700
01:11:49,550 --> 01:11:45,840
to to discover

1701
01:11:52,250 --> 01:11:49,560
um I think uh you have to be proactive I

1702
01:11:55,310 --> 01:11:52,260
think we have to study the past and and

1703
01:12:00,169 --> 01:11:55,320
through study in the past you know I I

1704
01:12:04,669 --> 01:12:00,179
I've gone back uh to Ted Phillips cases

1705
01:12:10,070 --> 01:12:04,679
and have visited some of these locations

1706
01:12:10,669 --> 01:12:10,080
and and other classic uh locations and

1707
01:12:12,830 --> 01:12:10,679
um

1708
01:12:15,350 --> 01:12:12,840
there's still evidence there

1709
01:12:17,390 --> 01:12:15,360
there are places where there are still

1710
01:12:19,490 --> 01:12:17,400
there's still evidence there's still

1711
01:12:22,790 --> 01:12:19,500
broken trees there's still rings on the

1712
01:12:25,850 --> 01:12:22,800
ground you know from cases that are 40

1713
01:12:27,890 --> 01:12:25,860
or 50 years old guys and you know who's

1714
01:12:29,689 --> 01:12:27,900
doing the long-term scientific

1715
01:12:32,149 --> 01:12:29,699
study of that

1716
01:12:33,950 --> 01:12:32,159
uh nobody even knows it's there because

1717
01:12:36,530 --> 01:12:33,960
nobody's studying the past you know so

1718
01:12:38,630 --> 01:12:36,540
we have to study the past but most of

1719
01:12:40,610 --> 01:12:38,640
the cases throughout history we will

1720
01:12:42,590 --> 01:12:40,620
never get an answer

1721
01:12:44,689 --> 01:12:42,600
you won't know what's at McMinnville

1722
01:12:45,709 --> 01:12:44,699
even if aliens come down the aliens may

1723
01:12:47,930 --> 01:12:45,719
say

1724
01:12:49,090 --> 01:12:47,940
well enough we thought that was a hoax

1725
01:12:54,229 --> 01:12:49,100
you know

1726
01:12:56,630 --> 01:12:54,239
come down it's going to confirm every

1727
01:12:58,189 --> 01:12:56,640
interpretation you know Billy Myers is

1728
01:12:59,930 --> 01:12:58,199
going to be right Bob Lazar is going to

1729
01:13:02,270 --> 01:12:59,940
be right it's like no

1730
01:13:05,630 --> 01:13:02,280
there's there's a lot of interpretations

1731
01:13:08,030 --> 01:13:05,640
out there of evidence and cases and

1732
01:13:11,209 --> 01:13:08,040
speculative theories that are just wrong

1733
01:13:13,370 --> 01:13:11,219
and they're wrong a lot of them just

1734
01:13:15,590 --> 01:13:13,380
because they're bad history

1735
01:13:18,590 --> 01:13:15,600
uh they're they're not scientific

1736
01:13:21,169 --> 01:13:18,600
they're not critically thought out and

1737
01:13:22,970 --> 01:13:21,179
you know they're just logically

1738
01:13:25,370 --> 01:13:22,980
impossible because

1739
01:13:27,590 --> 01:13:25,380
you know it it if somebody's coming from

1740
01:13:29,390 --> 01:13:27,600
Venus then you know the same Galactic

1741
01:13:31,189 --> 01:13:29,400
civilization's not coming from Mars you

1742
01:13:32,570 --> 01:13:31,199
know what I'm saying so it's like

1743
01:13:34,010 --> 01:13:32,580
there's just a lot of these different

1744
01:13:35,689 --> 01:13:34,020
interpretations that are mutually

1745
01:13:37,370 --> 01:13:35,699
exclusive so what we want to do is we

1746
01:13:40,310 --> 01:13:37,380
want to narrow it down and I think

1747
01:13:42,290 --> 01:13:40,320
that's what heinek and and ballet you

1748
01:13:44,290 --> 01:13:42,300
know they're interested in the real high

1749
01:13:46,910 --> 01:13:44,300
strangeness stuff because that could be

1750
01:13:49,970 --> 01:13:46,920
distinguished from lights in the sky

1751
01:13:53,450 --> 01:13:49,980
which is the vast majority of UFOs

1752
01:13:55,310 --> 01:13:53,460
uh most UFOs are just things in the sky

1753
01:13:56,990 --> 01:13:55,320
that regular people don't know what they

1754
01:13:58,310 --> 01:13:57,000
are or even trained people don't know

1755
01:14:00,890 --> 01:13:58,320
what they are because they don't know

1756
01:14:03,830 --> 01:14:00,900
about optical illusions or or you know

1757
01:14:05,990 --> 01:14:03,840
uh different craft or balloons or

1758
01:14:07,610 --> 01:14:06,000
astronomical sort of stuff human beings

1759
01:14:08,270 --> 01:14:07,620
or human beings

1760
01:14:12,350 --> 01:14:08,280
um

1761
01:14:17,209 --> 01:14:12,360
but the very small minute amount of real

1762
01:14:19,970 --> 01:14:17,219
anomalies are exceedingly rare and

1763
01:14:22,790 --> 01:14:19,980
you're hearing about it afterwards so

1764
01:14:24,649 --> 01:14:22,800
you just can't rest on the story you

1765
01:14:27,130 --> 01:14:24,659
can't rest on The credibility of

1766
01:14:29,990 --> 01:14:27,140
somebody you just can't rest

1767
01:14:32,750 --> 01:14:30,000
scientifically on a narrative

1768
01:14:36,530 --> 01:14:32,760
okay we have to know

1769
01:14:39,830 --> 01:14:36,540
we have to be able to engage actual

1770
01:14:41,750 --> 01:14:39,840
phenomena in the future proactively to

1771
01:14:43,250 --> 01:14:41,760
be able to study it are we going to be

1772
01:14:46,850 --> 01:14:43,260
able to go back and find out what the

1773
01:14:50,570 --> 01:14:46,860
dino beavers were at Skinwalker Ranch

1774
01:14:53,270 --> 01:14:50,580
never we will never ever find that out

1775
01:14:54,890 --> 01:14:53,280
unless somebody gets a dino beaver and

1776
01:14:58,550 --> 01:14:54,900
we can cut it open and we can find out

1777
01:15:01,750 --> 01:14:58,560
what the hell it is you know uh I don't

1778
01:15:05,810 --> 01:15:04,070
I don't know

1779
01:15:08,990 --> 01:15:05,820
why do you think that there is a um

1780
01:15:10,669 --> 01:15:09,000
let's call it an Institutional bias

1781
01:15:14,270 --> 01:15:10,679
within ufology

1782
01:15:16,850 --> 01:15:14,280
um in favor of the ET hypothesis

1783
01:15:20,270 --> 01:15:16,860
I don't think that's true anymore

1784
01:15:23,209 --> 01:15:20,280
uh I I think there's that probably

1785
01:15:25,850 --> 01:15:23,219
because of the influence of of valet and

1786
01:15:29,030 --> 01:15:25,860
Keel who I grew up reading I read

1787
01:15:31,669 --> 01:15:29,040
everything you know I I I I love the

1788
01:15:33,410 --> 01:15:31,679
speculative thought stuff uh some of

1789
01:15:36,290 --> 01:15:33,420
that stuff makes sense

1790
01:15:38,030 --> 01:15:36,300
uh I don't think we can prove that you

1791
01:15:41,570 --> 01:15:38,040
know when when somebody was seeing a

1792
01:15:43,850 --> 01:15:41,580
fairy in the 1800s that was an alien uh

1793
01:15:45,290 --> 01:15:43,860
or you know that ezekiel's wheel was a

1794
01:15:47,510 --> 01:15:45,300
UFO we can't

1795
01:15:49,189 --> 01:15:47,520
we can you can believe it

1796
01:15:52,130 --> 01:15:49,199
you're never going to be able to prove

1797
01:15:55,370 --> 01:15:52,140
it unless aliens come down travel back

1798
01:15:58,729 --> 01:15:55,380
in time and show you that they did it

1799
01:16:00,830 --> 01:15:58,739
but but really the the dominant Theory I

1800
01:16:01,910 --> 01:16:00,840
I think now is

1801
01:16:05,149 --> 01:16:01,920
um

1802
01:16:07,669 --> 01:16:05,159
a morphology of you know an

1803
01:16:10,250 --> 01:16:07,679
interdimensional Theory

1804
01:16:12,649 --> 01:16:10,260
uh you know that there's some sort of

1805
01:16:18,050 --> 01:16:12,659
secret world within ours a parallel

1806
01:16:21,110 --> 01:16:18,060
universe very close to ours and that uh

1807
01:16:23,630 --> 01:16:21,120
a shadow realm you know uh sort of a

1808
01:16:25,970 --> 01:16:23,640
stranger things type type World maybe a

1809
01:16:28,370 --> 01:16:25,980
spirit world maybe just a metaphysical

1810
01:16:30,709 --> 01:16:28,380
Consciousness world

1811
01:16:33,590 --> 01:16:30,719
you got to be open to those uh you know

1812
01:16:36,169 --> 01:16:33,600
we start getting into religion uh when

1813
01:16:40,070 --> 01:16:36,179
we start talking about Consciousness and

1814
01:16:43,970 --> 01:16:40,080
souls and places where they reside and

1815
01:16:47,330 --> 01:16:43,980
and uh are you enlightened enough are

1816
01:16:50,510 --> 01:16:47,340
you at a proper vibration in order to

1817
01:16:52,790 --> 01:16:50,520
experience this reality uh you know

1818
01:16:56,570 --> 01:16:52,800
that's that's religion and that's

1819
01:16:58,490 --> 01:16:56,580
something also within UFO reform

1820
01:17:01,610 --> 01:16:58,500
is something that we need to look out

1821
01:17:04,490 --> 01:17:01,620
for because at any moment a UFO cult can

1822
01:17:07,370 --> 01:17:04,500
come along and Destroy any credibility

1823
01:17:08,990 --> 01:17:07,380
you know that you have there could be a

1824
01:17:11,750 --> 01:17:09,000
if there's another Heaven's Gate next

1825
01:17:14,689 --> 01:17:11,760
week guess what happens to hearings

1826
01:17:17,450 --> 01:17:14,699
you know you never get touched and it

1827
01:17:19,790 --> 01:17:17,460
could happen because there are belief

1828
01:17:21,110 --> 01:17:19,800
systems and there are fringes of people

1829
01:17:26,090 --> 01:17:21,120
and

1830
01:17:28,610 --> 01:17:26,100
another reform thing there are mentally

1831
01:17:31,070 --> 01:17:28,620
ill people within this field

1832
01:17:33,890 --> 01:17:31,080
and there are people that exploit the

1833
01:17:35,450 --> 01:17:33,900
mentally ill within this field and there

1834
01:17:38,390 --> 01:17:35,460
are people that exploit them for money

1835
01:17:40,669 --> 01:17:38,400
and they exploit them for believers and

1836
01:17:42,770 --> 01:17:40,679
followers and they pretend that they're

1837
01:17:44,810 --> 01:17:42,780
doctors when they're not they pretend

1838
01:17:46,490 --> 01:17:44,820
they're hypnosis when they're not they

1839
01:17:48,110 --> 01:17:46,500
pretend that they're psychiatrists when

1840
01:17:51,530 --> 01:17:48,120
they're not and they're bringing in

1841
01:17:53,209 --> 01:17:51,540
money and they're creating a pseudocult

1842
01:17:55,610 --> 01:17:53,219
and you know

1843
01:17:57,830 --> 01:17:55,620
we're sort of witnessing the emergence

1844
01:18:00,229 --> 01:17:57,840
of a pseudo-cult

1845
01:18:01,669 --> 01:18:00,239
where people are talking about the

1846
01:18:08,030 --> 01:18:01,679
phenomenon

1847
01:18:11,750 --> 01:18:08,040
reveal itself when it chooses to reveal

1848
01:18:15,649 --> 01:18:11,760
itself you know it's it's a deification

1849
01:18:19,550 --> 01:18:15,659
and anthropomorphization of a myriad a

1850
01:18:23,330 --> 01:18:19,560
collection of mysteries across time and

1851
01:18:25,729 --> 01:18:23,340
place and distance and people misreading

1852
01:18:28,370 --> 01:18:25,739
valet or not even reading ballet at all

1853
01:18:33,310 --> 01:18:28,380
or Keel sort of morphing everything into

1854
01:18:36,169 --> 01:18:33,320
this exploitative cult stew uh where

1855
01:18:39,470 --> 01:18:36,179
Consciousness is behind it Consciousness

1856
01:18:42,770 --> 01:18:39,480
is behind everything there's a non-human

1857
01:18:46,070 --> 01:18:42,780
intelligence that is able to shape-shift

1858
01:18:48,950 --> 01:18:46,080
and be a trickster in magical being like

1859
01:18:52,070 --> 01:18:48,960
a Godlike being that can be invisible

1860
01:18:54,229 --> 01:18:52,080
can manifest himself like a genie and

1861
01:18:57,590 --> 01:18:54,239
can change reality and warp reality and

1862
01:18:58,910 --> 01:18:57,600
morph reality and okay maybe somebody

1863
01:19:01,790 --> 01:18:58,920
just saw

1864
01:19:05,810 --> 01:19:01,800
you know a secret government jet

1865
01:19:11,149 --> 01:19:05,820
is that your genie you know it's uh no

1866
01:19:15,890 --> 01:19:11,159
but there are people that is sort of has

1867
01:19:18,350 --> 01:19:15,900
come and uh and it's sort of out of this

1868
01:19:20,750 --> 01:19:18,360
invisible college group you know it's

1869
01:19:23,270 --> 01:19:20,760
it's or

1870
01:19:26,149 --> 01:19:23,280
you know people like Leslie Kane and

1871
01:19:29,750 --> 01:19:26,159
ballet and and and they sort of have

1872
01:19:31,669 --> 01:19:29,760
been promoting this idea how put off you

1873
01:19:34,970 --> 01:19:31,679
know that there is

1874
01:19:37,550 --> 01:19:34,980
an invisible World an invisible universe

1875
01:19:40,310 --> 01:19:37,560
and somehow we can

1876
01:19:42,649 --> 01:19:40,320
magically tap into it or it can tap into

1877
01:19:45,229 --> 01:19:42,659
us and change reality

1878
01:19:48,169 --> 01:19:45,239
and okay

1879
01:19:50,149 --> 01:19:48,179
but how are you gonna prove it

1880
01:19:53,209 --> 01:19:50,159
you still got to prove if you don't

1881
01:19:56,330 --> 01:19:53,219
prove it it's a belief system if you

1882
01:19:59,870 --> 01:19:56,340
don't prove it it's a religion if you're

1883
01:20:01,669 --> 01:19:59,880
getting people to spend money and try to

1884
01:20:05,750 --> 01:20:01,679
psychically communicate with UFOs

1885
01:20:07,669 --> 01:20:05,760
through ce5 or go to some retreat

1886
01:20:09,530 --> 01:20:07,679
you're exploiting that you're trying to

1887
01:20:11,169 --> 01:20:09,540
create a cult you're not creating an

1888
01:20:13,870 --> 01:20:11,179
open

1889
01:20:16,790 --> 01:20:13,880
-minded critical thinking Enterprise

1890
01:20:18,830 --> 01:20:16,800
you're creating a pseudo-religion

1891
01:20:21,770 --> 01:20:18,840
if you're legit if you like can

1892
01:20:23,930 --> 01:20:21,780
legitimately do see E5 you need to do it

1893
01:20:26,330 --> 01:20:23,940
in a scientific under scientific

1894
01:20:27,950 --> 01:20:26,340
conditions prove it but the phenomenon

1895
01:20:30,470 --> 01:20:27,960
does not want to be reviewed the

1896
01:20:33,770 --> 01:20:30,480
phenomena does not want to the phenomena

1897
01:20:36,110 --> 01:20:33,780
is a trickster it's transient uh your

1898
01:20:39,110 --> 01:20:36,120
mind wasn't in the right set you know it

1899
01:20:42,229 --> 01:20:39,120
there's all these unfalsified abilities

1900
01:20:44,750 --> 01:20:42,239
saving the phenomenon things that happen

1901
01:20:47,149 --> 01:20:44,760
within you know these belief systems and

1902
01:20:49,310 --> 01:20:47,159
these conspiratorial Realms you know as

1903
01:20:51,890 --> 01:20:49,320
the the philosopher fire Robin said you

1904
01:20:53,330 --> 01:20:51,900
know it it saves the phenomena

1905
01:20:56,209 --> 01:20:53,340
you know

1906
01:20:58,490 --> 01:20:56,219
people are always trying to save it and

1907
01:21:00,950 --> 01:20:58,500
and it's it's a unbelievable form of

1908
01:21:03,470 --> 01:21:00,960
cognitive dissonance and people will

1909
01:21:05,270 --> 01:21:03,480
you've seen it on Twitter you've seen

1910
01:21:08,930 --> 01:21:05,280
people defending evidence that you know

1911
01:21:11,510 --> 01:21:08,940
is [\h__\h] you know that's a fake video

1912
01:21:13,490 --> 01:21:11,520
yes what right person sharing it and

1913
01:21:15,110 --> 01:21:13,500
this whole group of people because their

1914
01:21:17,090 --> 01:21:15,120
insiders are some little Club because

1915
01:21:20,209 --> 01:21:17,100
they're being manipulated by other

1916
01:21:21,950 --> 01:21:20,219
insiders in some other little Club

1917
01:21:24,649 --> 01:21:21,960
you know uh

1918
01:21:27,169 --> 01:21:24,659
just amazing

1919
01:21:29,510 --> 01:21:27,179
it's funny that uh this kind of like

1920
01:21:32,090 --> 01:21:29,520
more wooy interdimensional

1921
01:21:33,950 --> 01:21:32,100
uh hypothesis if you want to call it

1922
01:21:35,689 --> 01:21:33,960
that actually predates the eth I think

1923
01:21:37,550 --> 01:21:35,699
that's what uh all the Floridians were

1924
01:21:38,390 --> 01:21:37,560
talking about kind of pre-arnold right I

1925
01:21:41,570 --> 01:21:38,400
mean

1926
01:21:44,390 --> 01:21:41,580
um it's a religious concept you know I

1927
01:21:46,850 --> 01:21:44,400
mean our relations have that notion that

1928
01:21:49,310 --> 01:21:46,860
that there is another realm that we have

1929
01:21:51,590 --> 01:21:49,320
a soul within our body that you know

1930
01:21:54,290 --> 01:21:51,600
there's some sort of transmigration Soul

1931
01:21:55,550 --> 01:21:54,300
Consciousness yeah Consciousness we mean

1932
01:21:58,430 --> 01:21:55,560
soul

1933
01:21:59,750 --> 01:21:58,440
uh you know I I'm a Buddhist I'm a

1934
01:22:01,669 --> 01:21:59,760
practicing Buddhist I've been a

1935
01:22:06,830 --> 01:22:01,679
practicing Buddhist for 30 plus years

1936
01:22:11,209 --> 01:22:09,290
I'm from Missouri too you know so I'm a

1937
01:22:13,070 --> 01:22:11,219
show me practical sort of guy and I come

1938
01:22:16,130 --> 01:22:13,080
from a scientific background and it's

1939
01:22:18,229 --> 01:22:16,140
not mutually exclusive uh Buddhism

1940
01:22:19,729 --> 01:22:18,239
actually uh you know they're they're

1941
01:22:22,910 --> 01:22:19,739
they're tenants

1942
01:22:27,110 --> 01:22:22,920
uh in all different varieties of

1943
01:22:29,810 --> 01:22:27,120
Buddhism is uh illogic and and critical

1944
01:22:31,970 --> 01:22:29,820
thinking and arguing different sides of

1945
01:22:34,610 --> 01:22:31,980
arguments right I'm open to any

1946
01:22:37,910 --> 01:22:34,620
interpretation of evidence I'm open to

1947
01:22:40,669 --> 01:22:37,920
any Theory interpretation of of cases

1948
01:22:43,010 --> 01:22:40,679
speculation uh I I think they shouldn't

1949
01:22:44,870 --> 01:22:43,020
be as declarative as they are now I

1950
01:22:47,870 --> 01:22:44,880
think they should be you know temporary

1951
01:22:50,270 --> 01:22:47,880
until you can bring something with it

1952
01:22:52,070 --> 01:22:50,280
but that's the problem we're we're all

1953
01:22:58,310 --> 01:22:52,080
pundits

1954
01:23:00,830 --> 01:22:58,320
the you know nobody's actually playing

1955
01:23:03,709 --> 01:23:00,840
the game other than you know

1956
01:23:05,030 --> 01:23:03,719
Social Media stuff and there there's a

1957
01:23:07,130 --> 01:23:05,040
lot of social

1958
01:23:08,810 --> 01:23:07,140
stuff within the community as well you

1959
01:23:10,430 --> 01:23:08,820
guys know that there's camps and there's

1960
01:23:12,770 --> 01:23:10,440
groups and there's rivalries and there's

1961
01:23:14,750 --> 01:23:12,780
business rivalries and there's uh

1962
01:23:16,850 --> 01:23:14,760
competitors and there's people that

1963
01:23:18,530 --> 01:23:16,860
really hit each other's guts there's

1964
01:23:20,209 --> 01:23:18,540
people that would punch each other and

1965
01:23:23,209 --> 01:23:20,219
there's people that would probably you

1966
01:23:25,330 --> 01:23:23,219
know get along uh you know they had a

1967
01:23:28,010 --> 01:23:25,340
beer smoked a little something you know

1968
01:23:30,229 --> 01:23:28,020
because you know we've all been doing

1969
01:23:31,669 --> 01:23:30,239
drug use on this show Michael come on

1970
01:23:33,890 --> 01:23:31,679
you know what we're all we're all you

1971
01:23:35,870 --> 01:23:33,900
have no nerds we're all UFO nerds and I

1972
01:23:38,390 --> 01:23:35,880
I've tilted you know a few beers back

1973
01:23:40,850 --> 01:23:38,400
with draconians and and

1974
01:23:49,970 --> 01:23:40,860
you know but uh I'm gonna challenge him

1975
01:23:53,870 --> 01:23:51,709
with you a little bit

1976
01:23:55,970 --> 01:23:53,880
um I'm very curious about your Buddhist

1977
01:23:59,090 --> 01:23:55,980
practice if you're associated with any

1978
01:24:02,450 --> 01:23:59,100
kind of lineages and then also how these

1979
01:24:06,649 --> 01:24:02,460
practices May inform your understanding

1980
01:24:09,470 --> 01:24:06,659
or exploration of ufology

1981
01:24:12,350 --> 01:24:09,480
well um

1982
01:24:14,510 --> 01:24:12,360
well I try to keep my uh my UFO stuff

1983
01:24:16,310 --> 01:24:14,520
separate from My Religion it's kind of

1984
01:24:19,910 --> 01:24:16,320
an interesting concept for a lot of

1985
01:24:23,450 --> 01:24:19,920
people uh because ultimately my beliefs

1986
01:24:26,330 --> 01:24:23,460
my beliefs are my beliefs as far as you

1987
01:24:29,149 --> 01:24:26,340
know the meaning of life and and reality

1988
01:24:31,130 --> 01:24:29,159
and uh could you touch on this for a

1989
01:24:33,169 --> 01:24:31,140
moment I'm curious uh about your

1990
01:24:34,550 --> 01:24:33,179
opinions on those things

1991
01:24:36,890 --> 01:24:34,560
well

1992
01:24:40,070 --> 01:24:36,900
um just briefly not the entire thing but

1993
01:24:41,209 --> 01:24:40,080
yeah we we experience uh the universe

1994
01:24:43,610 --> 01:24:41,219
through

1995
01:24:47,510 --> 01:24:43,620
you know what we're in right

1996
01:24:51,050 --> 01:24:47,520
uh it's you know so we we have to

1997
01:24:54,470 --> 01:24:51,060
recognize I think that we exist locally

1998
01:24:55,790 --> 01:24:54,480
and we're perceiving the universe uh

1999
01:24:58,310 --> 01:24:55,800
through our own

2000
01:25:01,550 --> 01:24:58,320
our own Viewpoint and uh for all

2001
01:25:05,689 --> 01:25:01,560
practical purposes uh you know you are

2002
01:25:08,390 --> 01:25:05,699
your own Universe uh Because unless

2003
01:25:11,209 --> 01:25:08,400
there's an after life and and we can

2004
01:25:14,209 --> 01:25:11,219
debate what that means you know what

2005
01:25:17,149 --> 01:25:14,219
what is there an after life where is

2006
01:25:19,970 --> 01:25:17,159
that what is that what goes there How

2007
01:25:21,770 --> 01:25:19,980
does it go there what's it do there how

2008
01:25:24,830 --> 01:25:21,780
long does it stay there how does it

2009
01:25:27,430 --> 01:25:24,840
interact you know I suspect it's very

2010
01:25:31,790 --> 01:25:27,440
similar to the before life

2011
01:25:33,950 --> 01:25:31,800
nothing was existing right we we can at

2012
01:25:37,070 --> 01:25:33,960
least extrapolate that that's probably

2013
01:25:39,709 --> 01:25:37,080
the case that we go back into some void

2014
01:25:41,930 --> 01:25:39,719
and from our viewpoint

2015
01:25:44,750 --> 01:25:41,940
the universe will cease to be

2016
01:25:47,450 --> 01:25:44,760
and it sounds very depressing

2017
01:25:50,930 --> 01:25:47,460
uh but you know Buddhism can also be

2018
01:25:53,270 --> 01:25:50,940
very depressing you know so it realizing

2019
01:25:55,250 --> 01:25:53,280
well it's you know uh I think that's

2020
01:25:56,590 --> 01:25:55,260
that's such a western interpretation of

2021
01:25:58,810 --> 01:25:56,600
these ideas

2022
01:26:04,310 --> 01:25:58,820
I'm a western

2023
01:26:06,890 --> 01:26:04,320
Buddhist you know I you know I read you

2024
01:26:09,050 --> 01:26:06,900
know the the Zen Buddhist books and you

2025
01:26:11,090 --> 01:26:09,060
know uh I I used to work at Barnes and

2026
01:26:13,189 --> 01:26:11,100
Noble so you know I would read

2027
01:26:15,110 --> 01:26:13,199
everything and then of course I studied

2028
01:26:16,070 --> 01:26:15,120
philosophy in college

2029
01:26:18,290 --> 01:26:16,080
um

2030
01:26:21,950 --> 01:26:18,300
so I I've read all different you know

2031
01:26:25,189 --> 01:26:21,960
schools of Buddhism and uh the basic

2032
01:26:27,110 --> 01:26:25,199
tenet is that you know life is suffering

2033
01:26:29,209 --> 01:26:27,120
and uh

2034
01:26:30,890 --> 01:26:29,219
you know the reason that we suffer is

2035
01:26:34,370 --> 01:26:30,900
because you know we're attached to

2036
01:26:36,410 --> 01:26:34,380
things either ourselves our reality our

2037
01:26:39,050 --> 01:26:36,420
viewpoints you know all the things

2038
01:26:43,070 --> 01:26:39,060
around us and you know we're just

2039
01:26:44,270 --> 01:26:43,080
satisfied and that dissatisfaction leads

2040
01:26:48,110 --> 01:26:44,280
to misery

2041
01:26:50,689 --> 01:26:48,120
and you know the state of humanity is a

2042
01:26:53,570 --> 01:26:50,699
state of misery uh that's your sad

2043
01:26:57,530 --> 01:26:53,580
Buddhism there you know the the the four

2044
01:26:59,870 --> 01:26:57,540
noble truths and and how we how we get

2045
01:27:02,450 --> 01:26:59,880
out of that is you don't really get out

2046
01:27:05,030 --> 01:27:02,460
of that it you just have to make sure it

2047
01:27:07,729 --> 01:27:05,040
doesn't bother you and you try to have

2048
01:27:11,229 --> 01:27:07,739
you know the right concentration and the

2049
01:27:14,450 --> 01:27:11,239
right action and the right livelihood

2050
01:27:17,689 --> 01:27:14,460
the right thoughtfulness the right

2051
01:27:20,149 --> 01:27:17,699
mindfulness the right effort

2052
01:27:21,729 --> 01:27:20,159
the right speech the right thought and

2053
01:27:24,950 --> 01:27:21,739
the right understanding

2054
01:27:27,410 --> 01:27:24,960
uh those are you know basic Buddhist

2055
01:27:30,290 --> 01:27:27,420
tenets and um

2056
01:27:34,010 --> 01:27:30,300
are you gonna succeed no

2057
01:27:36,649 --> 01:27:34,020
are you perfect yes you're perfect

2058
01:27:39,350 --> 01:27:36,659
everything is as it should be

2059
01:27:42,169 --> 01:27:39,360
you exist within the now you exist

2060
01:27:44,270 --> 01:27:42,179
within the Eternal now

2061
01:27:48,910 --> 01:27:44,280
and there's nothing you can do about it

2062
01:27:53,149 --> 01:27:51,649
and you will go back into that darkness

2063
01:27:56,870 --> 01:27:53,159
and

2064
01:27:59,090 --> 01:27:56,880
is life futile is life useless

2065
01:28:02,330 --> 01:27:59,100
is life horrible

2066
01:28:04,850 --> 01:28:02,340
yeah but it's also beautiful and it's

2067
01:28:06,649 --> 01:28:04,860
precious and

2068
01:28:08,870 --> 01:28:06,659
it's going to be the only one that you

2069
01:28:11,450 --> 01:28:08,880
have unless

2070
01:28:14,890 --> 01:28:11,460
somehow and this is also a Buddhist

2071
01:28:16,850 --> 01:28:14,900
tenant it's not really a

2072
01:28:18,770 --> 01:28:16,860
reincarnation there's not really a

2073
01:28:21,410 --> 01:28:18,780
transmigration

2074
01:28:24,229 --> 01:28:21,420
of your soul because there really isn't

2075
01:28:27,830 --> 01:28:24,239
a soul there's you know these heaps you

2076
01:28:30,290 --> 01:28:27,840
know these aspects of your being that do

2077
01:28:31,729 --> 01:28:30,300
persist at least some metaphysical

2078
01:28:34,610 --> 01:28:31,739
component

2079
01:28:37,729 --> 01:28:34,620
and somehow that is able

2080
01:28:40,850 --> 01:28:37,739
to manifest itself in other ways that's

2081
01:28:44,510 --> 01:28:40,860
a that's a belief that's a religious

2082
01:28:46,850 --> 01:28:44,520
belief it's you know it's

2083
01:28:49,070 --> 01:28:46,860
maybe it's something that will be

2084
01:28:50,689 --> 01:28:49,080
discovered scientifically maybe a lot of

2085
01:28:53,330 --> 01:28:50,699
these things will be discovered

2086
01:28:59,709 --> 01:28:53,340
scientifically I think uh you know as

2087
01:29:02,689 --> 01:28:59,719
I've said uh the universe is is is chaos

2088
01:29:05,689 --> 01:29:02,699
the universe is fractal and the universe

2089
01:29:08,030 --> 01:29:05,699
is infinite but it's also

2090
01:29:12,770 --> 01:29:08,040
you know within that Infinity there's

2091
01:29:14,350 --> 01:29:12,780
also other infinities and uh

2092
01:29:18,729 --> 01:29:14,360
yeah we're going up on a big

2093
01:29:23,209 --> 01:29:21,649
I I don't you don't get to meditate as

2094
01:29:26,270 --> 01:29:23,219
often you know because I'm watching a

2095
01:29:28,850 --> 01:29:26,280
baby and I got kids and all that and I'm

2096
01:29:31,370 --> 01:29:28,860
fighting with uh you know people on UFO

2097
01:29:35,110 --> 01:29:31,380
Twitter or sharing UFO stuff but but

2098
01:29:37,729 --> 01:29:35,120
sorry man UFO Twitter is samsara

2099
01:29:41,689 --> 01:29:37,739
we are trapped eternally in the cycle

2100
01:29:44,450 --> 01:29:41,699
you know what yes sir we're all drops in

2101
01:29:46,669 --> 01:29:44,460
the same ocean you know and I I don't I

2102
01:29:49,189 --> 01:29:46,679
turned it to give people a hard time I

2103
01:29:52,070 --> 01:29:49,199
will debate people I will argue with

2104
01:29:53,870 --> 01:29:52,080
people uh but I challenge anybody to say

2105
01:29:56,450 --> 01:29:53,880
where I've just gone out and just call

2106
01:29:59,750 --> 01:29:56,460
people names oh yeah I may characterize

2107
01:30:03,290 --> 01:29:59,760
people with people at all I genuinely do

2108
01:30:05,390 --> 01:30:03,300
not it's bad juju man yeah

2109
01:30:06,770 --> 01:30:05,400
instead of curiosity

2110
01:30:08,810 --> 01:30:06,780
um

2111
01:30:11,030 --> 01:30:08,820
are there is there a particular lineage

2112
01:30:12,830 --> 01:30:11,040
or tradition that you can practice in

2113
01:30:14,750 --> 01:30:12,840
um or have you kind of just moseyed

2114
01:30:16,610 --> 01:30:14,760
through a number of them I asked just

2115
01:30:19,490 --> 01:30:16,620
because like I'm a practitioner

2116
01:30:24,169 --> 01:30:19,500
um and took Refuge earlier this year

2117
01:30:26,629 --> 01:30:24,179
um and uh lineage so I'm super curious

2118
01:30:28,070 --> 01:30:26,639
okay I'm losing you

2119
01:30:29,689 --> 01:30:28,080
it's breaking up can you can you guys

2120
01:30:32,750 --> 01:30:29,699
hear what you're seeing me yes we can

2121
01:30:36,410 --> 01:30:34,370
no uh

2122
01:30:38,750 --> 01:30:36,420
you know I've read the domapata and and

2123
01:30:41,270 --> 01:30:38,760
researched theraved and stuff there

2124
01:30:43,070 --> 01:30:41,280
there's been uh a couple of uh different

2125
01:30:47,750 --> 01:30:43,080
temples around in this area in Missouri

2126
01:30:50,570 --> 01:30:47,760
but uh uh no mostly I uh uh you know I

2127
01:30:53,510 --> 01:30:50,580
got a little uh meditation catch here uh

2128
01:30:56,330 --> 01:30:53,520
awesome I I I try to make my uh my

2129
01:30:59,510 --> 01:30:56,340
travels uh my meditation you know I try

2130
01:31:02,390 --> 01:30:59,520
to go to these places and yes and and be

2131
01:31:05,510 --> 01:31:02,400
quiet and and just sort of put myself in

2132
01:31:07,189 --> 01:31:05,520
these uh these uh anomalous places and

2133
01:31:14,990 --> 01:31:07,199
uh

2134
01:31:16,490 --> 01:31:15,000
time

2135
01:31:18,290 --> 01:31:16,500
I understand this I think of that line

2136
01:31:20,090 --> 01:31:18,300
from the snow leopard by Peter Mathison

2137
01:31:22,610 --> 01:31:20,100
that the religious ceremony is life

2138
01:31:24,410 --> 01:31:22,620
itself right that's sort of the

2139
01:31:26,570 --> 01:31:24,420
objective that we bring these practices

2140
01:31:29,270 --> 01:31:26,580
off the mat or Off the Bench or off the

2141
01:31:31,370 --> 01:31:29,280
pillow and into daily life uh where they

2142
01:31:33,590 --> 01:31:31,380
can actually propagate

2143
01:31:35,810 --> 01:31:33,600
and and I'm not going to begrudge

2144
01:31:38,810 --> 01:31:35,820
anybody you know they're uh their

2145
01:31:39,530 --> 01:31:38,820
practices or their rituals everybody has

2146
01:31:42,169 --> 01:31:39,540
them

2147
01:31:44,209 --> 01:31:42,179
even scientists have their rituals uh

2148
01:31:46,370 --> 01:31:44,219
you know even even Skeptics have you got

2149
01:31:48,590 --> 01:31:46,380
your lucky bra before a date right it's

2150
01:31:50,149 --> 01:31:48,600
magic it's ritual

2151
01:31:53,330 --> 01:31:50,159
when you're super

2152
01:31:55,430 --> 01:31:53,340
uh asked back to to us you know we're

2153
01:31:57,470 --> 01:31:55,440
we're in the 21st century but you know

2154
01:31:58,910 --> 01:31:57,480
we still believe in deities and we still

2155
01:32:03,050 --> 01:31:58,920
practice we're barely out of the jungle

2156
01:32:05,270 --> 01:32:03,060
man and holidays yeah and and

2157
01:32:07,250 --> 01:32:05,280
sometimes they work

2158
01:32:09,530 --> 01:32:07,260
which is what's interesting you know

2159
01:32:12,169 --> 01:32:09,540
which you know if if

2160
01:32:13,910 --> 01:32:12,179
a ritual can work like you know like

2161
01:32:17,689 --> 01:32:13,920
I've said synchronicities you know

2162
01:32:19,550 --> 01:32:17,699
thinking of things and and uh you know I

2163
01:32:22,850 --> 01:32:19,560
I think there's probably something there

2164
01:32:26,390 --> 01:32:22,860
to remote viewing at least with a within

2165
01:32:28,850 --> 01:32:26,400
a very narrow area but still I I want to

2166
01:32:32,090 --> 01:32:28,860
know how it works you know whether there

2167
01:32:34,129 --> 01:32:32,100
are waves that go out or you know things

2168
01:32:35,930 --> 01:32:34,139
you know is there a mechanism within the

2169
01:32:38,570 --> 01:32:35,940
brain that operates

2170
01:32:41,629 --> 01:32:38,580
um there there's things to discover and

2171
01:32:45,050 --> 01:32:41,639
and uh rituals are fascinating I I have

2172
01:32:47,330 --> 01:32:45,060
rituals and uh and and I go to these

2173
01:32:50,090 --> 01:32:47,340
conferences and I go to these uh places

2174
01:32:52,070 --> 01:32:50,100
and uh you see a lot of different

2175
01:32:54,590 --> 01:32:52,080
techniques and

2176
01:32:57,129 --> 01:32:54,600
you could say that it's a technique you

2177
01:32:59,810 --> 01:32:57,139
know from the classic technique you know

2178
01:33:02,930 --> 01:32:59,820
way of doing things we're a technology

2179
01:33:05,149 --> 01:33:02,940
even yes that's all we're doing we're a

2180
01:33:08,209 --> 01:33:05,159
bunch of matter you know we're hairless

2181
01:33:10,189 --> 01:33:08,219
Apes made out of matter moving a bunch

2182
01:33:12,770 --> 01:33:10,199
of stuff moving a bunch of stuff around

2183
01:33:15,770 --> 01:33:12,780
and then a bunch of atoms are triggering

2184
01:33:17,270 --> 01:33:15,780
stuff on sparking up here

2185
01:33:20,510 --> 01:33:17,280
um

2186
01:33:21,410 --> 01:33:20,520
is it going somewhere is all this data

2187
01:33:24,890 --> 01:33:21,420
lost

2188
01:33:26,149 --> 01:33:24,900
it is all this data going to some sort

2189
01:33:28,010 --> 01:33:26,159
of godhead

2190
01:33:30,910 --> 01:33:28,020
because you would think by definition

2191
01:33:33,229 --> 01:33:30,920
that would be a necessity if God exists

2192
01:33:34,970 --> 01:33:33,239
then I would have knowledge of

2193
01:33:38,209 --> 01:33:34,980
everything therefore you would have to

2194
01:33:42,169 --> 01:33:38,219
exist in our experiences right so we are

2195
01:33:45,110 --> 01:33:42,179
God you know uh but anyway

2196
01:33:47,330 --> 01:33:45,120
yeah I I'd hate to not bring this up and

2197
01:33:49,550 --> 01:33:47,340
youth um throughout the show you've kind

2198
01:33:52,550 --> 01:33:49,560
of criticized the modern

2199
01:33:54,229 --> 01:33:52,560
um conference scene a bit but you have

2200
01:33:57,050 --> 01:33:54,239
started your own you had one last August

2201
01:33:59,990 --> 01:33:57,060
right and um I yeah beginning to do that

2202
01:34:02,570 --> 01:34:00,000
talk about this well uh you know I I've

2203
01:34:05,870 --> 01:34:02,580
talked to some people uh been talking to

2204
01:34:10,189 --> 01:34:05,880
people for quite a few years about uh

2205
01:34:12,410 --> 01:34:10,199
reform conferences yeah and uh

2206
01:34:14,629 --> 01:34:12,420
getting rid of the salesman stuff

2207
01:34:17,689 --> 01:34:14,639
getting rid of the merch stuff and and

2208
01:34:23,149 --> 01:34:17,699
all that and you've had you know like

2209
01:34:26,810 --> 01:34:23,159
SCU come about uh I I lobbied Rich for

2210
01:34:30,169 --> 01:34:26,820
years you know to uh to get a a working

2211
01:34:33,290 --> 01:34:30,179
scientific conference uh and you know I

2212
01:34:35,030 --> 01:34:33,300
was at the first SCU uh that is

2213
01:34:38,629 --> 01:34:35,040
invitation you know interacting and

2214
01:34:40,550 --> 01:34:38,639
causing trouble but um

2215
01:34:43,729 --> 01:34:40,560
yeah uh

2216
01:34:45,890 --> 01:34:43,739
I don't want to change the culture uh

2217
01:34:47,689 --> 01:34:45,900
because UFO conferences are fun and

2218
01:34:50,930 --> 01:34:47,699
there's a social component and a lot of

2219
01:34:52,430 --> 01:34:50,940
these people uh there's some people that

2220
01:34:55,209 --> 01:34:52,440
really

2221
01:34:57,709 --> 01:34:55,219
that's it's their only family you know

2222
01:34:59,570 --> 01:34:57,719
older people have been going to some of

2223
01:35:01,310 --> 01:34:59,580
these things there's a social component

2224
01:35:03,470 --> 01:35:01,320
and you don't want to get rid of that

2225
01:35:05,330 --> 01:35:03,480
you know but you also don't want to

2226
01:35:08,270 --> 01:35:05,340
exploit that and these people you know

2227
01:35:10,970 --> 01:35:08,280
have been working for for decades to

2228
01:35:11,870 --> 01:35:10,980
achieve legitimacy so

2229
01:35:13,610 --> 01:35:11,880
um

2230
01:35:15,350 --> 01:35:13,620
yeah I've been pushing for reform

2231
01:35:17,930 --> 01:35:15,360
conferences

2232
01:35:20,750 --> 01:35:17,940
um the the conference here in K which

2233
01:35:23,570 --> 01:35:20,760
was the first paranormal conference uh

2234
01:35:26,870 --> 01:35:23,580
that k-pad uh

2235
01:35:29,149 --> 01:35:26,880
I think it it was a good start uh we'll

2236
01:35:31,669 --> 01:35:29,159
have to fine-tune some things I I think

2237
01:35:34,070 --> 01:35:31,679
we got some legitimate speakers uh

2238
01:35:36,050 --> 01:35:34,080
talking about uh you know not the woo

2239
01:35:38,990 --> 01:35:36,060
stuff but talking about the scientific

2240
01:35:42,229 --> 01:35:39,000
issues uh because you are dealing with a

2241
01:35:44,090 --> 01:35:42,239
lot of the same issues uh with all these

2242
01:35:49,070 --> 01:35:44,100
different anomalous areas you know

2243
01:35:50,870 --> 01:35:49,080
Bigfoot ghosts uh you know uh UFOs they

2244
01:35:52,209 --> 01:35:50,880
all deal with the same problems they

2245
01:35:55,790 --> 01:35:52,219
deal with you know celebrity

2246
01:35:58,970 --> 01:35:55,800
exploitation uh you know trying to

2247
01:36:02,930 --> 01:35:58,980
achieve proper methodology uh trying to

2248
01:36:05,570 --> 01:36:02,940
come about evidence uh you know uh and

2249
01:36:08,390 --> 01:36:05,580
there are people that are okay with just

2250
01:36:10,490 --> 01:36:08,400
doing the ritual you know they think on

2251
01:36:13,970 --> 01:36:10,500
it they show each other their catches

2252
01:36:15,950 --> 01:36:13,980
and it's almost like fishing you know oh

2253
01:36:19,129 --> 01:36:15,960
look what I got you got a ghost I got a

2254
01:36:22,729 --> 01:36:19,139
UFO look it's like okay that it really

2255
01:36:24,830 --> 01:36:22,739
means nothing in a lot of ways

2256
01:36:27,709 --> 01:36:24,840
um maybe personally though I mean first

2257
01:36:29,450 --> 01:36:27,719
of all it's hot and it it can just it

2258
01:36:31,189 --> 01:36:29,460
can be a hobby you know I would wake up

2259
01:36:33,110 --> 01:36:31,199
running again for sure and when I say

2260
01:36:35,770 --> 01:36:33,120
ghost hunting I mean like what you think

2261
01:36:39,169 --> 01:36:35,780
of with ghosts yeah

2262
01:36:41,450 --> 01:36:39,179
and and when I say reform I'm not like

2263
01:36:43,189 --> 01:36:41,460
Lou was saying you know you follow Gene

2264
01:36:45,410 --> 01:36:43,199
needs to be destroyed

2265
01:36:47,629 --> 01:36:45,420
which is like

2266
01:36:49,729 --> 01:36:47,639
that's that's so brain dead they're

2267
01:36:51,770 --> 01:36:49,739
fighting words it's like well it's like

2268
01:36:53,990 --> 01:36:51,780
it's like don't you know the history of

2269
01:36:55,550 --> 01:36:54,000
the UFO subject over the past 75 years

2270
01:36:58,490 --> 01:36:55,560
and intelligence guy is going to come

2271
01:37:00,530 --> 01:36:58,500
along and say you know F you Dr heinek

2272
01:37:01,970 --> 01:37:00,540
we're going to destroy ufology it's like

2273
01:37:04,610 --> 01:37:01,980
you know that's the way some people hear

2274
01:37:08,209 --> 01:37:04,620
it it's like what who the hell are you

2275
01:37:09,890 --> 01:37:08,219
dude you know you you came in this like

2276
01:37:11,090 --> 01:37:09,900
five years ago seven years ago eight

2277
01:37:13,610 --> 01:37:11,100
it's like

2278
01:37:16,850 --> 01:37:13,620
but anyway that's uh new things don't

2279
01:37:19,490 --> 01:37:16,860
have to report reform not destroying not

2280
01:37:21,649 --> 01:37:19,500
threw everything out it's like let's

2281
01:37:24,070 --> 01:37:21,659
you know let's get some

2282
01:37:26,870 --> 01:37:24,080
papers up there let's get some uh

2283
01:37:30,649 --> 01:37:26,880
documentaries let's not do everything

2284
01:37:33,350 --> 01:37:30,659
through Prometheus so you can uh catch

2285
01:37:35,810 --> 01:37:33,360
cat you know get your the value on the

2286
01:37:38,390 --> 01:37:35,820
speaking circuit up that's what the

2287
01:37:40,550 --> 01:37:38,400
basis of a lot of it is value in the

2288
01:37:43,129 --> 01:37:40,560
speaking circuit and that's why people

2289
01:37:45,350 --> 01:37:43,139
do media so do you intend to continue

2290
01:37:47,030 --> 01:37:45,360
and uh maybe host some other ones in the

2291
01:37:50,149 --> 01:37:47,040
future

2292
01:37:52,790 --> 01:37:50,159
um I don't know maybe uh we'll see I I

2293
01:37:55,070 --> 01:37:52,800
would I would really like you know that

2294
01:37:57,169 --> 01:37:55,080
that was more of like a a Unity

2295
01:38:01,250 --> 01:37:57,179
conference I would really

2296
01:38:03,050 --> 01:38:01,260
like to talk to people and eventually

2297
01:38:05,810 --> 01:38:03,060
get a

2298
01:38:07,850 --> 01:38:05,820
reform conference you know where people

2299
01:38:09,709 --> 01:38:07,860
talk about what they want

2300
01:38:11,689 --> 01:38:09,719
what they want

2301
01:38:13,729 --> 01:38:11,699
let's talk about where we want to go

2302
01:38:16,010 --> 01:38:13,739
let's talk about where we want to steer

2303
01:38:18,410 --> 01:38:16,020
the ship let's talk about what we want

2304
01:38:20,390 --> 01:38:18,420
for evidence let's talk about what's

2305
01:38:21,350 --> 01:38:20,400
legitimate and what's not let's talk

2306
01:38:22,850 --> 01:38:21,360
about

2307
01:38:24,530 --> 01:38:22,860
you know how we're going to change a

2308
01:38:25,550 --> 01:38:24,540
paradigm how do you go about changing a

2309
01:38:27,890 --> 01:38:25,560
paradigm

2310
01:38:30,110 --> 01:38:27,900
you know how do we exit the Visionary

2311
01:38:33,830 --> 01:38:30,120
conference basically right let's have

2312
01:38:36,470 --> 01:38:33,840
some workshops workshops on you know

2313
01:38:40,189 --> 01:38:36,480
building proper methodology and building

2314
01:38:44,390 --> 01:38:40,199
a a library and building a curriculum

2315
01:38:45,290 --> 01:38:44,400
not you know a crystal readings or you

2316
01:38:46,850 --> 01:38:45,300
know

2317
01:38:49,070 --> 01:38:46,860
uh

2318
01:38:50,870 --> 01:38:49,080
20 and back or you know

2319
01:38:53,930 --> 01:38:50,880
you have too much of that sort of stuff

2320
01:38:57,890 --> 01:38:53,940
encompasses you know the the kitschy TV

2321
01:38:59,930 --> 01:38:57,900
stuff and we need we need to uh we need

2322
01:39:02,450 --> 01:38:59,940
a professionalized field

2323
01:39:05,090 --> 01:39:02,460
and uh the only way you're going to do

2324
01:39:09,050 --> 01:39:05,100
that is is make it professional

2325
01:39:12,950 --> 01:39:09,060
and it's some sort of group a union

2326
01:39:15,350 --> 01:39:12,960
you know and have conferences and have a

2327
01:39:18,709 --> 01:39:15,360
curriculum and imagine if we could get a

2328
01:39:20,209 --> 01:39:18,719
university uh to put out at least a

2329
01:39:24,709 --> 01:39:20,219
degree

2330
01:39:26,990 --> 01:39:24,719
ufology

2331
01:39:30,090 --> 01:39:27,000
you can do it

2332
01:39:30,100 --> 01:39:33,590
[Laughter]

2333
01:39:40,610 --> 01:39:37,490
no it's it's I'm not kidding and and I'm

2334
01:39:43,330 --> 01:39:40,620
not laughing I mean I'm not you can

2335
01:39:46,490 --> 01:39:43,340
laugh but thank you it sounds weird

2336
01:39:48,709 --> 01:39:46,500
sounds weird but I I think there are

2337
01:39:51,729 --> 01:39:48,719
epitomized and standardize a curriculum

2338
01:39:55,729 --> 01:39:51,739
here so that there's some some floor

2339
01:39:58,490 --> 01:39:55,739
around what is considered legitimacy in

2340
01:40:00,590 --> 01:39:58,500
the subject there's well

2341
01:40:02,810 --> 01:40:00,600
any field that's been around long enough

2342
01:40:05,030 --> 01:40:02,820
has an expertise to it

2343
01:40:07,550 --> 01:40:05,040
and I think one that's been around for

2344
01:40:10,550 --> 01:40:07,560
you know 100 years because I'm going to

2345
01:40:12,070 --> 01:40:10,560
go back to like the 30s with the War of

2346
01:40:15,290 --> 01:40:12,080
the Worlds you know because that really

2347
01:40:15,950 --> 01:40:15,300
created the culture I think

2348
01:40:17,870 --> 01:40:15,960
um

2349
01:40:19,129 --> 01:40:17,880
but you know even airships before that

2350
01:40:22,310 --> 01:40:19,139
but uh

2351
01:40:24,770 --> 01:40:22,320
100 years you know of of this subject

2352
01:40:27,229 --> 01:40:24,780
it's equally as old as civil rights

2353
01:40:31,189 --> 01:40:27,239
movement maybe not as important maybe

2354
01:40:34,030 --> 01:40:31,199
more important you know uh maybe

2355
01:40:37,490 --> 01:40:34,040
important just for the sake of science

2356
01:40:39,530 --> 01:40:37,500
maybe it can make us look at at problems

2357
01:40:42,350 --> 01:40:39,540
differently because like you said Leah

2358
01:40:43,790 --> 01:40:42,360
there's there's issues with trying to

2359
01:40:46,189 --> 01:40:43,800
study this stuff because we're dealing

2360
01:40:49,129 --> 01:40:46,199
with transient phenomena that is

2361
01:40:51,350 --> 01:40:49,139
disparate and you know maybe as a

2362
01:40:54,709 --> 01:40:51,360
deliberateness behind it that makes it

2363
01:40:58,189 --> 01:40:54,719
hard to study you know but these things

2364
01:41:00,410 --> 01:40:58,199
are not obstacles to just rest on

2365
01:41:02,930 --> 01:41:00,420
you don't just rest on a witness account

2366
01:41:05,510 --> 01:41:02,940
you just don't rest on an interpretation

2367
01:41:07,450 --> 01:41:05,520
or speculation that's the beginning of

2368
01:41:10,430 --> 01:41:07,460
your investigation

2369
01:41:14,090 --> 01:41:10,440
go further than that you don't rest on

2370
01:41:15,709 --> 01:41:14,100
it you know you develop a a program and

2371
01:41:17,209 --> 01:41:15,719
that's what we need

2372
01:41:18,729 --> 01:41:17,219
it also feels like

2373
01:41:25,430 --> 01:41:18,739
um

2374
01:41:27,470 --> 01:41:25,440
the substance and respect that it

2375
01:41:28,910 --> 01:41:27,480
deserves right like like let's say we're

2376
01:41:31,010 --> 01:41:28,920
working within this container where this

2377
01:41:32,390 --> 01:41:31,020
is literally one of the largest and most

2378
01:41:34,609 --> 01:41:32,400
important questions you ever face

2379
01:41:36,649 --> 01:41:34,619
humanity and has existed in perpetuity

2380
01:41:38,810 --> 01:41:36,659
basically across all times and cultures

2381
01:41:41,750 --> 01:41:38,820
and theologies for all of human

2382
01:41:44,209 --> 01:41:41,760
existence like that in and of itself

2383
01:41:47,750 --> 01:41:44,219
confers a degree of substance and import

2384
01:41:50,510 --> 01:41:47,760
that to me effectively necessitates some

2385
01:41:52,370 --> 01:41:50,520
kind of standardization of how the

2386
01:41:54,470 --> 01:41:52,380
subject is approached and explored and I

2387
01:41:57,250 --> 01:41:54,480
don't mean just from a empirical

2388
01:41:59,450 --> 01:41:57,260
scientific perspective but also

2389
01:42:00,830 --> 01:41:59,460
spirituality like spiritually with from

2390
01:42:03,229 --> 01:42:00,840
a religious and anthropological

2391
01:42:06,109 --> 01:42:03,239
perspective but yeah I'm totally with

2392
01:42:08,870 --> 01:42:06,119
you in the sense that to fail to do this

2393
01:42:10,910 --> 01:42:08,880
is to also completely fail to

2394
01:42:12,950 --> 01:42:10,920
acknowledge and recognize the inherent

2395
01:42:16,550 --> 01:42:12,960
critical importance of the questions

2396
01:42:18,470 --> 01:42:16,560
that the field is asking yeah

2397
01:42:19,970 --> 01:42:18,480
and and there are some important

2398
01:42:23,870 --> 01:42:19,980
questions out there

2399
01:42:28,490 --> 01:42:23,880
you know uh the underlying thing

2400
01:42:33,770 --> 01:42:31,609
the big question is are we alone or not

2401
01:42:36,109 --> 01:42:33,780
and we we already know the answer to

2402
01:42:38,930 --> 01:42:36,119
that we know that we're not alone

2403
01:42:41,209 --> 01:42:38,940
uh I mean just Within

2404
01:42:43,850 --> 01:42:41,219
scientific probability and mathematic

2405
01:42:44,750 --> 01:42:43,860
mathematics we know that we know that

2406
01:42:47,990 --> 01:42:44,760
they're

2407
01:42:50,689 --> 01:42:48,000
somewhere out there or somewhere closer

2408
01:42:53,149 --> 01:42:50,699
to us we still don't understand how the

2409
01:42:54,050 --> 01:42:53,159
universe works in a lot of ways

2410
01:42:56,930 --> 01:42:54,060
um

2411
01:42:59,570 --> 01:42:56,940
there are some intelligences out there

2412
01:43:01,790 --> 01:42:59,580
now you know the big questions arise as

2413
01:43:03,590 --> 01:43:01,800
to what level of interaction and we can

2414
01:43:06,970 --> 01:43:03,600
have different interpretations over the

2415
01:43:09,229 --> 01:43:06,980
history of humanity as per you know

2416
01:43:12,590 --> 01:43:09,239
religions and and you know the

2417
01:43:13,550 --> 01:43:12,600
archetypes and Archeology and all that

2418
01:43:15,370 --> 01:43:13,560
um

2419
01:43:18,169 --> 01:43:15,380
but

2420
01:43:20,149 --> 01:43:18,179
barring any sort of proof a lot of it's

2421
01:43:23,209 --> 01:43:20,159
going to be you know it's going to be

2422
01:43:25,970 --> 01:43:23,219
supposition and it's and and and we

2423
01:43:34,129 --> 01:43:25,980
still would need to know okay what race

2424
01:43:38,090 --> 01:43:36,290
it's a

2425
01:43:40,970 --> 01:43:38,100
where are we getting a lot of our ideas

2426
01:43:43,970 --> 01:43:40,980
a lot of our ideas are bad ideas and we

2427
01:43:46,010 --> 01:43:43,980
you know we that's so true you know and

2428
01:43:49,669 --> 01:43:46,020
and like I said mutually exclusive they

2429
01:43:51,410 --> 01:43:49,679
they well maybe not you know it would be

2430
01:43:53,750 --> 01:43:51,420
great it would be fantastic if

2431
01:43:55,669 --> 01:43:53,760
everything was like a Marvel movie where

2432
01:43:58,189 --> 01:43:55,679
you know there's multiverses and there's

2433
01:43:59,689 --> 01:43:58,199
aliens and there's people living on out

2434
01:44:03,910 --> 01:43:59,699
on the other side of the moon or inside

2435
01:44:08,330 --> 01:44:05,810
you know it's like

2436
01:44:10,609 --> 01:44:08,340
uh it would be fantastic it would be

2437
01:44:12,950 --> 01:44:10,619
great I'm a scientific dork you know so

2438
01:44:16,790 --> 01:44:12,960
I mean I

2439
01:44:19,250 --> 01:44:16,800
some of that may be true I I think uh if

2440
01:44:22,490 --> 01:44:19,260
any of that outrageous stuff it it is

2441
01:44:24,290 --> 01:44:22,500
true it's probably you know some sort of

2442
01:44:26,930 --> 01:44:24,300
temporal

2443
01:44:28,910 --> 01:44:26,940
us from the future you know or some sort

2444
01:44:30,470 --> 01:44:28,920
of artificial intelligence if we're just

2445
01:44:31,189 --> 01:44:30,480
you know speculating because it would

2446
01:44:32,870 --> 01:44:31,199
make

2447
01:44:36,590 --> 01:44:32,880
sense because you know we're sort of

2448
01:44:38,149 --> 01:44:36,600
evolving into the into that right uh if

2449
01:44:40,729 --> 01:44:38,159
we're not already there we may be

2450
01:44:42,950 --> 01:44:40,739
artificial intelligent

2451
01:44:44,390 --> 01:44:42,960
things right now experience in this

2452
01:44:46,490 --> 01:44:44,400
universe

2453
01:44:47,930 --> 01:44:46,500
yeah something

2454
01:44:49,910 --> 01:44:47,940
um that I noticed coming into the

2455
01:44:52,790 --> 01:44:49,920
subject as uh I think Michael you said

2456
01:44:54,350 --> 01:44:52,800
like something like a UFO Noob um I was

2457
01:44:56,750 --> 01:44:54,360
coming at it from the outside like from

2458
01:44:57,890 --> 01:44:56,760
the materialist like academic thing and

2459
01:45:00,890 --> 01:44:57,900
we're talking a little bit about the

2460
01:45:03,169 --> 01:45:00,900
conferences studying the subject and uh

2461
01:45:04,790 --> 01:45:03,179
what I saw in the literature was that

2462
01:45:08,030 --> 01:45:04,800
there was a breaking off at a certain

2463
01:45:10,129 --> 01:45:08,040
point perhaps uh 1994 in his dollar

2464
01:45:11,390 --> 01:45:10,139
Norway is the first uh good example of

2465
01:45:12,890 --> 01:45:11,400
this the scientific conference that

2466
01:45:15,290 --> 01:45:12,900
erling strand called after doing those

2467
01:45:16,970 --> 01:45:15,300
repeated observations and it was uh

2468
01:45:18,649 --> 01:45:16,980
titled something like luminous phenomena

2469
01:45:20,330 --> 01:45:18,659
in the atmosphere and then he brought in

2470
01:45:21,890 --> 01:45:20,340
you know a couple dozen scientists from

2471
01:45:24,709 --> 01:45:21,900
around the world a variety of papers

2472
01:45:27,890 --> 01:45:24,719
resulted from that they all concerned

2473
01:45:30,890 --> 01:45:27,900
the production of ball lightning like

2474
01:45:33,229 --> 01:45:30,900
phenomena naturally in the atmosphere

2475
01:45:34,310 --> 01:45:33,239
um and what I've seen since is uh you

2476
01:45:37,970 --> 01:45:34,320
know the verification that ball

2477
01:45:40,370 --> 01:45:37,980
lightning exists in 2014 and that um

2478
01:45:43,129 --> 01:45:40,380
these these phenomena are being

2479
01:45:46,250 --> 01:45:43,139
described in hundreds of physics papers

2480
01:45:47,990 --> 01:45:46,260
in detail in the exact exact same way as

2481
01:45:50,149 --> 01:45:48,000
Dr Dale and heineck described them in

2482
01:45:53,390 --> 01:45:50,159
his original like The observationally

2483
01:45:55,970 --> 01:45:53,400
Identical features and at the European

2484
01:45:57,109 --> 01:45:55,980
geophysical Union conference is where

2485
01:45:59,270 --> 01:45:57,119
these papers are being presented about

2486
01:46:00,950 --> 01:45:59,280
these phenomena and you know there are

2487
01:46:03,410 --> 01:46:00,960
all of these published papers about

2488
01:46:05,510 --> 01:46:03,420
these things and uh we sort of are

2489
01:46:07,550 --> 01:46:05,520
getting around like oh what is a UFO

2490
01:46:10,189 --> 01:46:07,560
what is an UFO like these physicists in

2491
01:46:12,169 --> 01:46:10,199
the papers we think many of these things

2492
01:46:15,350 --> 01:46:12,179
are UFOs my view is the identical that

2493
01:46:17,750 --> 01:46:15,360
Arthur C clerks in the 50s many hardcore

2494
01:46:19,910 --> 01:46:17,760
unexplained UFOs made the ball lightning

2495
01:46:21,530 --> 01:46:19,920
that's his quote in his final the

2496
01:46:23,209 --> 01:46:21,540
description of the subject before he

2497
01:46:24,830 --> 01:46:23,219
passed away was if there are

2498
01:46:26,570 --> 01:46:24,840
extraordinary UFOs I believe there's

2499
01:46:29,149 --> 01:46:26,580
some kind of atmospheric effect

2500
01:46:30,530 --> 01:46:29,159
um and that's my position

2501
01:46:31,669 --> 01:46:30,540
um we're sort of dancing around it do

2502
01:46:33,109 --> 01:46:31,679
you think that there's any validity to

2503
01:46:34,490 --> 01:46:33,119
what I'm saying how is there actually

2504
01:46:36,109 --> 01:46:34,500
continued legitimate study of this

2505
01:46:38,689 --> 01:46:36,119
subject occurring in a different sphere

2506
01:46:41,570 --> 01:46:38,699
and sort of the UFO thing is sort of

2507
01:46:43,550 --> 01:46:41,580
this zombie Walking forward uh on its

2508
01:46:45,050 --> 01:46:43,560
own momentum and we are sort of there's

2509
01:46:47,629 --> 01:46:45,060
validity in discussing the culture and

2510
01:46:49,010 --> 01:46:47,639
stuff but like is that actually ufology

2511
01:46:50,990 --> 01:46:49,020
rather than the study of the objects

2512
01:46:53,510 --> 01:46:51,000
themselves maybe well

2513
01:46:55,910 --> 01:46:53,520
I can send the ethology is the study of

2514
01:46:58,729 --> 01:46:55,920
UFOs and everything in it the culture

2515
01:47:00,950 --> 01:46:58,739
the history the cases the movements the

2516
01:47:02,510 --> 01:47:00,960
personalities the literature you know

2517
01:47:04,850 --> 01:47:02,520
the influences

2518
01:47:07,430 --> 01:47:04,860
just like any multi-disciplinary thing

2519
01:47:10,250 --> 01:47:07,440
and within that is the scientific

2520
01:47:14,270 --> 01:47:10,260
mystery and the investigation of that

2521
01:47:16,970 --> 01:47:14,280
scientific mystery and I I think

2522
01:47:20,390 --> 01:47:16,980
as I've said each case has its own

2523
01:47:23,209 --> 01:47:20,400
merits and I think there is adequate

2524
01:47:25,010 --> 01:47:23,219
evidence uh to suggest exactly what

2525
01:47:27,530 --> 01:47:25,020
you're saying if you go back and look at

2526
01:47:30,050 --> 01:47:27,540
uh you know like the work of coralists

2527
01:47:33,410 --> 01:47:30,060
or other people that that

2528
01:47:35,510 --> 01:47:33,420
have explored the idea of uh even uh

2529
01:47:38,390 --> 01:47:35,520
Harley Rutledge wrote about it nominee

2530
01:47:39,350 --> 01:47:38,400
magazine you know the idea of uh some

2531
01:47:41,930 --> 01:47:39,360
sort of

2532
01:47:43,910 --> 01:47:41,940
either atmospheric

2533
01:47:46,370 --> 01:47:43,920
uh you know some sort of ball lightning

2534
01:47:48,470 --> 01:47:46,380
some sort of unknown uh atmospheric

2535
01:47:50,510 --> 01:47:48,480
phenomena related to electricity or

2536
01:47:52,490 --> 01:47:50,520
magnetism that we're not aware of or

2537
01:47:55,430 --> 01:47:52,500
something that is created uh

2538
01:47:58,870 --> 01:47:55,440
geophysically similar to that you know

2539
01:48:01,870 --> 01:47:58,880
either way it's you know High

2540
01:48:05,990 --> 01:48:01,880
electromagnetic yield buoyant plasmas

2541
01:48:09,229 --> 01:48:06,000
that uh some have speculated that within

2542
01:48:14,290 --> 01:48:09,239
a certain range it may you know affect

2543
01:48:19,270 --> 01:48:16,850
university did studies with the god

2544
01:48:21,830 --> 01:48:19,280
helmet that uh demonstrated

2545
01:48:24,310 --> 01:48:21,840
electromagnetic electromagnetic effects

2546
01:48:28,250 --> 01:48:24,320
on certain parts of the brain can induce

2547
01:48:30,890 --> 01:48:28,260
you know hypnagogic experiences some

2548
01:48:33,229 --> 01:48:30,900
would argue that the guide helmet is a

2549
01:48:35,629 --> 01:48:33,239
god helmet and actually can transcend

2550
01:48:37,790 --> 01:48:35,639
into another reality that's right right

2551
01:48:40,729 --> 01:48:37,800
but at least we know that it's a

2552
01:48:43,490 --> 01:48:40,739
hypnagogic induced thing where you know

2553
01:48:45,470 --> 01:48:43,500
aliens and ghosts and and different sort

2554
01:48:48,890 --> 01:48:45,480
of things similar to you know the night

2555
01:48:51,950 --> 01:48:48,900
terror uh uh phenomenon can be

2556
01:48:55,250 --> 01:48:51,960
demonstrated and and I think in some

2557
01:48:56,810 --> 01:48:55,260
cases in some local localities some of

2558
01:48:57,830 --> 01:48:56,820
these places where there are spook

2559
01:49:00,169 --> 01:48:57,840
lights

2560
01:49:03,229 --> 01:49:00,179
uh some of these places where there are

2561
01:49:05,450 --> 01:49:03,239
Earth lights you know where and there's

2562
01:49:08,149 --> 01:49:05,460
been consistent reports of these things

2563
01:49:12,590 --> 01:49:08,159
tied to geographical locations like

2564
01:49:14,870 --> 01:49:12,600
hestylin for you know decades uh I I

2565
01:49:17,390 --> 01:49:14,880
think there is a legitimate natural

2566
01:49:19,370 --> 01:49:17,400
physical phenomena there worthy of

2567
01:49:22,310 --> 01:49:19,380
scientific study geologists and

2568
01:49:24,590 --> 01:49:22,320
physicists and Atmospheric scientists

2569
01:49:29,629 --> 01:49:24,600
and they should do that

2570
01:49:31,850 --> 01:49:29,639
aerial anomaly and anomalies is what

2571
01:49:33,830 --> 01:49:31,860
science is supposed to investigate

2572
01:49:36,290 --> 01:49:33,840
and it's supposed to do it in a

2573
01:49:39,109 --> 01:49:36,300
scientific way and I think if you know

2574
01:49:41,209 --> 01:49:39,119
uh I think with things like ball

2575
01:49:43,550 --> 01:49:41,219
lightning and and we're discovering new

2576
01:49:45,590 --> 01:49:43,560
things about the atmosphere every year

2577
01:49:47,510 --> 01:49:45,600
you know when I was growing up we didn't

2578
01:49:50,149 --> 01:49:47,520
have Sprites and all these you know

2579
01:49:53,390 --> 01:49:50,159
these Sky fairy lightning things that

2580
01:49:55,310 --> 01:49:53,400
are that are uh that we're seeing and

2581
01:49:58,070 --> 01:49:55,320
it's it's only gonna get

2582
01:49:59,930 --> 01:49:58,080
uh more like that where you know it's

2583
01:50:01,910 --> 01:49:59,940
going to necessitate that we study

2584
01:50:03,770 --> 01:50:01,920
atmospheric science and that we study

2585
01:50:06,470 --> 01:50:03,780
all the things that are in the sky if

2586
01:50:09,229 --> 01:50:06,480
you know if we're if we're going to uh

2587
01:50:12,109 --> 01:50:09,239
engage in the the scientific stuff or

2588
01:50:15,729 --> 01:50:12,119
erling you know he's got a uh his work

2589
01:50:18,649 --> 01:50:15,739
cut out for him you know uh he's done a

2590
01:50:20,870 --> 01:50:18,659
fantastic job you know I mean I I think

2591
01:50:24,169 --> 01:50:20,880
heinek was visiting him you know right

2592
01:50:26,709 --> 01:50:24,179
before his death and uh recognizing that

2593
01:50:29,570 --> 01:50:26,719
at least in some cases

2594
01:50:33,410 --> 01:50:29,580
uh there is a geophysical connection

2595
01:50:37,370 --> 01:50:33,420
that may result in a variant phenomena

2596
01:50:41,209 --> 01:50:37,380
and maybe even in some locations it

2597
01:50:43,790 --> 01:50:41,219
maybe some sort of temporal phenomena or

2598
01:50:47,030 --> 01:50:43,800
it may be some sort of Gateway phenomena

2599
01:50:50,330 --> 01:50:47,040
I'm open to all these things but I'm

2600
01:50:53,090 --> 01:50:50,340
open to not just logging them and

2601
01:50:56,330 --> 01:50:53,100
visiting them and documenting them and

2602
01:50:58,370 --> 01:50:56,340
gpsing them but uh hopefully eventually

2603
01:51:01,070 --> 01:50:58,380
uh we can uh

2604
01:51:02,510 --> 01:51:01,080
get instruments and I think you know

2605
01:51:05,990 --> 01:51:02,520
instead of spending the millions of

2606
01:51:09,470 --> 01:51:06,000
dollars at alien cons and and TV shows

2607
01:51:11,450 --> 01:51:09,480
uh I think we can uh get forty thousand

2608
01:51:13,430 --> 01:51:11,460
dollars worth of equipment start popping

2609
01:51:14,570 --> 01:51:13,440
it down into places like Marley Woods

2610
01:51:17,149 --> 01:51:14,580
near me

2611
01:51:19,310 --> 01:51:17,159
you know which is Missouri's Walker

2612
01:51:22,390 --> 01:51:19,320
Ranch there are places like that there

2613
01:51:25,729 --> 01:51:22,400
are places where you know since I do GPS

2614
01:51:28,550 --> 01:51:25,739
you know Divergent anomalies not just

2615
01:51:30,410 --> 01:51:28,560
UFOs I'm able to see things that a lot

2616
01:51:36,649 --> 01:51:30,420
of people aren't you'd be surprised how

2617
01:51:39,350 --> 01:51:36,659
many haunted UFO anomalous uh encrypted

2618
01:51:42,649 --> 01:51:39,360
places intersect

2619
01:51:44,030 --> 01:51:42,659
you know and it goes beyond just

2620
01:51:46,790 --> 01:51:44,040
folklore

2621
01:51:50,510 --> 01:51:46,800
you know when it's when when a place has

2622
01:51:53,270 --> 01:51:50,520
a a variety of anomalies that's when

2623
01:51:56,450 --> 01:51:53,280
it's truly interesting and like I said I

2624
01:51:58,010 --> 01:51:56,460
think localization and uh doing things

2625
01:52:01,070 --> 01:51:58,020
like hestylin

2626
01:52:04,609 --> 01:52:01,080
uh we need thousands of households

2627
01:52:07,189 --> 01:52:04,619
and we need out of Galileo stuff and the

2628
01:52:08,990 --> 01:52:07,199
Galileo stuff needs to be scientific and

2629
01:52:11,510 --> 01:52:09,000
not intelligence

2630
01:52:14,330 --> 01:52:11,520
it needs to be scientific and not TV

2631
01:52:16,430 --> 01:52:14,340
show okay there I know they're going to

2632
01:52:19,910 --> 01:52:16,440
put a camera in Catalina

2633
01:52:22,250 --> 01:52:19,920
oh yeah I because it's Hollywood don't

2634
01:52:26,030 --> 01:52:22,260
think you wouldn't watch that and those

2635
01:52:28,729 --> 01:52:26,040
people love oh let's go to Catalina Demi

2636
01:52:30,290 --> 01:52:28,739
Lovato did all that stuff right it's

2637
01:52:33,050 --> 01:52:30,300
like yeah of course they're gonna put

2638
01:52:36,830 --> 01:52:33,060
one in Catalina that has Catalina had

2639
01:52:39,290 --> 01:52:36,840
UFO encounters yes sure is Catalina a

2640
01:52:41,510 --> 01:52:39,300
statistically scientifically validated

2641
01:52:44,270 --> 01:52:41,520
hotspot no

2642
01:52:46,209 --> 01:52:44,280
there are a hundred other places that

2643
01:52:49,490 --> 01:52:46,219
are more anomalous than that

2644
01:52:52,430 --> 01:52:49,500
okay and that's where you're seeing

2645
01:52:53,810 --> 01:52:52,440
unfortunately I think you know Galileo

2646
01:52:55,790 --> 01:52:53,820
might be

2647
01:52:58,609 --> 01:52:55,800
you know they have Ancient Aliens people

2648
01:53:00,050 --> 01:52:58,619
on their staff they have Urology in

2649
01:53:01,010 --> 01:53:00,060
their group you know what what are they

2650
01:53:04,010 --> 01:53:01,020
telling them

2651
01:53:05,390 --> 01:53:04,020
and arrow too who's influencing era you

2652
01:53:07,850 --> 01:53:05,400
know are they getting all the same

2653
01:53:11,390 --> 01:53:07,860
regurgitated TV show stories

2654
01:53:12,890 --> 01:53:11,400
you know uh from people that really

2655
01:53:15,709 --> 01:53:12,900
don't know the subject or they have a

2656
01:53:18,229 --> 01:53:15,719
biased view of the subject you know I I

2657
01:53:20,330 --> 01:53:18,239
worry about people like senator

2658
01:53:24,109 --> 01:53:20,340
gillibrand being influenced by people

2659
01:53:28,370 --> 01:53:24,119
like luellizando or even Leslie King

2660
01:53:30,649 --> 01:53:28,380
okay I respect her but she's biased she

2661
01:53:33,590 --> 01:53:30,659
is not a he is not a journalist in the

2662
01:53:35,870 --> 01:53:33,600
sense that she's not a UFO activist he

2663
01:53:38,390 --> 01:53:35,880
has been a long time in UFO actually she

2664
01:53:40,790 --> 01:53:38,400
has a very particular view of the

2665
01:53:43,609 --> 01:53:40,800
phenomena and there's a lot of people

2666
01:53:46,790 --> 01:53:43,619
within their insular group you know that

2667
01:53:50,390 --> 01:53:46,800
orchestrate and collaborate and

2668
01:53:54,709 --> 01:53:50,400
organize you know behind this uh this uh

2669
01:53:56,390 --> 01:53:54,719
this movement and uh uh I I think it's

2670
01:53:57,950 --> 01:53:56,400
gonna ultimately be another D

2671
01:54:02,649 --> 01:53:57,960
legitimizing thing

2672
01:54:05,229 --> 01:54:02,659
uh the next few years I gotta get stupid

2673
01:54:09,830 --> 01:54:05,239
you heard it here yeah

2674
01:54:13,450 --> 01:54:09,840
uh Michael on that note the

2675
01:54:20,109 --> 01:54:17,209
uh where can our audience find you

2676
01:54:24,290 --> 01:54:20,119
uh UFO Twitter

2677
01:54:26,990 --> 01:54:24,300
the first realm the hell Realms got it

2678
01:54:31,250 --> 01:54:27,000
no social media Instagram Facebook all

2679
01:54:33,290 --> 01:54:31,260
that sort of stuff I'm there uh I'm uh I

2680
01:54:35,629 --> 01:54:33,300
write and I blog and I travel and I

2681
01:54:38,930 --> 01:54:35,639
enjoy doing that and uh you know I put

2682
01:54:40,310 --> 01:54:38,940
the UFO celebrity thing I've been in

2683
01:54:43,430 --> 01:54:40,320
documentaries and all that sort of stuff

2684
01:54:46,669 --> 01:54:43,440
and that stuff's fun and you know but we

2685
01:54:48,350 --> 01:54:46,679
can do all that too but I I think we

2686
01:54:51,830 --> 01:54:48,360
need to be honest and we need to be real

2687
01:54:53,870 --> 01:54:51,840
and we need to honestly look at things

2688
01:54:55,729 --> 01:54:53,880
and be legitimate with each other and

2689
01:54:59,209 --> 01:54:55,739
stop blowing smoke each other's asses

2690
01:55:01,729 --> 01:54:59,219
you know it's like it's a Decades of

2691
01:55:03,890 --> 01:55:01,739
just so much baloney

2692
01:55:07,310 --> 01:55:03,900
and it's coming from us

2693
01:55:11,270 --> 01:55:07,320
and uh um yeah you can find me on social

2694
01:55:14,030 --> 01:55:11,280
media I'm accessible and uh if you uh

2695
01:55:15,530 --> 01:55:14,040
have any uh GPS data or a case or

2696
01:55:17,450 --> 01:55:15,540
anything if you want my opinion or if

2697
01:55:18,709 --> 01:55:17,460
you you want a business somewhere I you

2698
01:55:20,209 --> 01:55:18,719
know I'll be able to help you out there

2699
01:55:23,030 --> 01:55:20,219
just to

2700
01:55:25,250 --> 01:55:23,040
or it just Google my name I'm sure some

2701
01:55:28,970 --> 01:55:25,260
stuff will come up pictures and articles

2702
01:55:30,350 --> 01:55:28,980
and all that awesome Michael thank you

2703
01:55:32,450 --> 01:55:30,360
so much for joining the invisible night

2704
01:55:35,209 --> 01:55:32,460
school tonight just delighted so glad we

2705
01:55:36,890 --> 01:55:35,219
had the opportunity to connect

2706
01:55:38,390 --> 01:55:36,900
um I'm gonna put you off the stream uh

2707
01:55:40,189 --> 01:55:38,400
the Royal sailor good nights and we'll

2708
01:55:42,109 --> 01:55:40,199
all get our Beauty Rest

2709
01:55:44,709 --> 01:55:42,119
um so again Michael Huntington ladies

2710
01:55:49,609 --> 01:55:44,719
and gentlemen a pleasure

2711
01:55:54,890 --> 01:55:52,370
all right all right what do you think

2712
01:55:56,750 --> 01:55:54,900
that was a really good one yeah that was

2713
01:56:00,109 --> 01:55:56,760
fun yes

2714
01:56:02,930 --> 01:56:00,119
any party words before we uh hang up our

2715
01:56:04,790 --> 01:56:02,940
mics for the evening folks for once I

2716
01:56:09,290 --> 01:56:04,800
actually have something that I did

2717
01:56:12,649 --> 01:56:09,300
related to UFOs really last Wednesday uh

2718
01:56:14,629 --> 01:56:12,659
within an hour before I lost power I was

2719
01:56:16,490 --> 01:56:14,639
interviewed on

2720
01:56:18,649 --> 01:56:16,500
um a YouTube channel Sean Atwood

2721
01:56:22,010 --> 01:56:18,659
Unleashed he does like True Crime stuff

2722
01:56:24,530 --> 01:56:22,020
but uh he has like 770 000 subscribers

2723
01:56:26,689 --> 01:56:24,540
and I did a 30 minute interview on there

2724
01:56:28,790 --> 01:56:26,699
and that should be coming out in the

2725
01:56:30,229 --> 01:56:28,800
next like four or five days

2726
01:56:31,910 --> 01:56:30,239
um so that should be interesting nice

2727
01:56:34,729 --> 01:56:31,920
yeah post the links all around so we can

2728
01:56:37,970 --> 01:56:34,739
see it yeah

2729
01:56:40,430 --> 01:56:37,980
anybody else up to anything cool

2730
01:56:45,590 --> 01:56:40,440
no um

2731
01:56:48,950 --> 01:56:47,149
um

2732
01:56:49,729 --> 01:56:48,960
I'm working on a couple of things but

2733
01:56:53,530 --> 01:56:49,739
I'll

2734
01:56:56,570 --> 01:56:53,540
sure

2735
01:56:58,490 --> 01:56:56,580
secretive nice what about you Nick

2736
01:57:01,850 --> 01:56:58,500
anything going on

2737
01:57:04,250 --> 01:57:01,860
yeah I'm um it's not UFO related I'm

2738
01:57:06,169 --> 01:57:04,260
playing in a uh a webcam Magic

2739
01:57:07,970 --> 01:57:06,179
tournament right now

2740
01:57:11,030 --> 01:57:07,980
um it's a it's a very Niche format

2741
01:57:12,589 --> 01:57:11,040
called Old School 94 90 or 93 94 so it's

2742
01:57:13,970 --> 01:57:12,599
just the first two years of the game and

2743
01:57:15,410 --> 01:57:13,980
I'm playing with people all over Europe

2744
01:57:22,609 --> 01:57:15,420
and stuff like that so it's kind of cool

2745
01:57:26,750 --> 01:57:24,950
during the game

2746
01:57:29,330 --> 01:57:26,760
um

2747
01:57:30,410 --> 01:57:29,340
Magic the Gathering there's a very neat

2748
01:57:31,850 --> 01:57:30,420
format

2749
01:57:34,010 --> 01:57:31,860
um that's just the first two years of

2750
01:57:35,750 --> 01:57:34,020
the game and um it's very popular in

2751
01:57:37,729 --> 01:57:35,760
Europe so playing webcam games with them

2752
01:57:39,830 --> 01:57:37,739
so I get the two cameras set up right

2753
01:57:41,270 --> 01:57:39,840
now is that streamed anywhere is it uh

2754
01:57:43,510 --> 01:57:41,280
just one-on-one type thing so is it on

2755
01:57:47,270 --> 01:57:43,520
your only fans Nick tell us

2756
01:57:50,750 --> 01:57:47,280
it is okay to see that

2757
01:57:52,790 --> 01:57:50,760
I think the um kind of like the the top

2758
01:57:54,770 --> 01:57:52,800
16 it's a Swiss tournament so the the

2759
01:57:56,810 --> 01:57:54,780
top top 16 I think will be on YouTube

2760
01:57:57,589 --> 01:57:56,820
and I will share it for anyone

2761
01:57:59,570 --> 01:57:57,599
um

2762
01:58:01,490 --> 01:57:59,580
anyone there's a cross over here that's

2763
01:58:04,370 --> 01:58:01,500
watching that is actually interested in

2764
01:58:06,470 --> 01:58:04,380
the like I said a very Niche format of

2765
01:58:08,930 --> 01:58:06,480
kind of a niche game this is real nerd

2766
01:58:13,430 --> 01:58:11,930
I am I think I'm pretty good so you

2767
01:58:16,010 --> 01:58:13,440
probably should check it out

2768
01:58:18,410 --> 01:58:16,020
you're gonna have to prove it yeah yeah

2769
01:58:24,229 --> 01:58:18,420
now they'll cut me yeah they'll cut me

2770
01:58:28,310 --> 01:58:26,689
all right well

2771
01:58:29,990 --> 01:58:28,320
this wraps up another episode of The

2772
01:58:32,209 --> 01:58:30,000
Invisible night school

2773
01:58:34,669 --> 01:58:32,219
um next week uh we'll be doing an open

2774
01:58:37,010 --> 01:58:34,679
lines episode finally

2775
01:58:38,930 --> 01:58:37,020
um I know that our scheduling got super

2776
01:58:41,030 --> 01:58:38,940
weird for a little bit uh but we'll be

2777
01:58:43,609 --> 01:58:41,040
back next Wednesday 9 p.m Eastern for

2778
01:58:46,910 --> 01:58:43,619
open lines uh for anyone tuning in open

2779
01:58:48,169 --> 01:58:46,920
lions are great uh jump on yeah join the

2780
01:58:49,370 --> 01:58:48,179
conversation talk about whatever you

2781
01:58:51,229 --> 01:58:49,380
want to talk about

2782
01:58:53,030 --> 01:58:51,239
um I'd love to give some updates too on

2783
01:58:55,430 --> 01:58:53,040
uh you know I was in New York last week

2784
01:58:57,649 --> 01:58:55,440
for the inquiry to anomalous experiences

2785
01:58:59,510 --> 01:58:57,659
and the phenomenon I've gone to every

2786
01:59:01,790 --> 01:58:59,520
conference now in that series put on by

2787
01:59:04,370 --> 01:59:01,800
James iandoli and J Christopher King

2788
01:59:06,350 --> 01:59:04,380
um so happy to give some updates and

2789
01:59:07,790 --> 01:59:06,360
thoughts on that next week as well yeah

2790
01:59:09,350 --> 01:59:07,800
I want to hear about that

2791
01:59:10,850 --> 01:59:09,360
um I don't think we have actually said

2792
01:59:12,470 --> 01:59:10,860
this out loud yet but we were thinking

2793
01:59:13,790 --> 01:59:12,480
about or we're considering doing an open

2794
01:59:16,370 --> 01:59:13,800
lines once a month

2795
01:59:17,990 --> 01:59:16,380
so that way the listeners can you know

2796
01:59:20,810 --> 01:59:18,000
prepare it won't be sprung on them last

2797
01:59:22,490 --> 01:59:20,820
minute so they can um you know work on

2798
01:59:25,550 --> 01:59:22,500
things they want to bring to the show

2799
01:59:27,649 --> 01:59:25,560
yes yes uh Duncan asking to see the ring

2800
01:59:29,689 --> 01:59:27,659
again yes right now it's a white silicon

2801
01:59:31,729 --> 01:59:29,699
ring Because the actual ring is being

2802
01:59:33,589 --> 01:59:31,739
made by a jeweler

2803
01:59:35,990 --> 01:59:33,599
um hopefully I'll have it sometime in

2804
01:59:38,930 --> 01:59:36,000
the next couple of months but yeah I am

2805
01:59:40,850 --> 01:59:38,940
yeah I see that yeah I'll make sure to

2806
01:59:43,550 --> 01:59:40,860
show it off once it's like in my sweaty

2807
01:59:50,689 --> 01:59:44,570
cool

2808
01:59:54,830 --> 01:59:52,910
I mean

2809
01:59:57,830 --> 01:59:54,840
that's nice to be back that was the

2810
02:00:00,910 --> 01:59:57,840
longest I know it's nice yeah together

2811
02:00:06,109 --> 02:00:03,649
cool all right well I will see all of

2812
02:00:08,629 --> 02:00:06,119
you audience members co-hosts it's

2813
02:00:16,900 --> 02:00:08,639
everyone else see you next Wednesday 9pm

2814
02:00:55,440 --> 02:00:40,089
[Music]

2815
02:00:59,050 --> 02:00:55,450
[Applause]

2816
02:01:01,120 --> 02:00:59,060
[Music]